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Post by Bentley on Feb 2, 2024 11:56:49 GMT
Laet me help Bentley, i have read books on Buddhism, there much good stuff in there. It says that life is like a wave in the sea, it is seperate and is also part of the whole, you are human, but still part of a greater existence, as mentioned, you are a creation of the universe. The immortal soul is not different either to the whole, its not seperate, you can concieve of it as being seperate or not, your consciousness is part of a bigger consciousness, and yes, it does notice every sparrow that falls, because a sparrow too is divine, a work of art, perfect in all ways. As a human therein lies serious creativity, your mind, you can do anything with it, free will, etc, create heaven or hell. Where you go with it creates future paths, you are creating your future now, every second, beyond what we call death. God only knows what spheres there are beyond this life, created by people like you and me, think it, it becomes so in time. A hell like realm awaits people like Putin. One of the most important premises of Buddhism is the denial of self . It doesn’t say life is like a wave on the sea . Buddhism denies the existence of a soul because it claims the difference between everything is an illusion . There is no such thing as ‘ you’ according to the Buddha. This is completely opposite of the Christian belief that a human soul has been created by a God and is immortal . |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 2, 2024 12:18:50 GMT
The opening subject was forgiveness and Jesus' laws say that we should all forgive others, remember too that we are forgiven. Not automatically of course, for true repentance must feature largely on our part first. There is also the concept that forgiveness has to be accepted. We might be forgiven as a gift of God but if we cannot accept that, then we will not be comfortable in His presence so our acceptance will determine our eternal future. If we are unable to forgive others then we will be treated the same. Our aim throughout our earthly life is to become as much like Jesus and His Father as we can then God's Grace takes up the rest. Sadly the Old Testament set the bar too high and perfection was unattainable, fortunately the plan included the birth of Jesus in fulfilling the Old Testament prophesies which gave us a new order where forgiveness and redemption are possible and thus eternal life. There is a lot to be very grateful for. Really? Up until recently the concept of hell was part of Christian dogma . So Christians could forgive those that hurt them on the understanding that God is going to punish the evil doer for them . Now the notion of hell is a bit too strong for some but hope is at hand …Karma has been taken out of context and twisted into a mechanism for cosmic retribution. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2024 20:20:03 GMT
I had been a Christian some years before I realised that forgiving others is not an option, it is a command. However, forgiving others does not necessarily mean restoration to the previous position
AFAIK Hell is still a part of Christian doctrine. Jesus clearly said "Repent or perish!" which seems quite brutal, until the way to avoid perishing is examined in scripture.
Perish means a second death.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2024 20:43:00 GMT
I had been a Christian some years before I realised that forgiving others is not an option, it is a command. However, forgiving others does not necessarily mean restoration to the previous position AFAIK Hell is still a part of Christian doctrine. Jesus clearly said "Repent or perish!" which seems quite brutal, until the way to avoid perishing is examined in scripture. Perish means a second death. There are some instances where a 2nd death (death of the Spirit) will be the judgement sadly, but these people will be those who will not accept Christ or God's Grace even at Judgement Day, so their end is complete. Others although misguided in life who will realise the truth of the Saviour even at last will be due God's Grace but perhaps not in such great abundance. 'In my Father's house are many mansions' which rather suggests that there are many levels of 'Glory' depending on our faith and works. Fortunately for all of us Jesus will stand by us as our advocate before God. I believe that even the lowest echelons will be so amazing that we cannot imagine it. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 2, 2024 20:49:12 GMT
I had been a Christian some years before I realised that forgiving others is not an option, it is a command. However, forgiving others does not necessarily mean restoration to the previous position AFAIK Hell is still a part of Christian doctrine. Jesus clearly said "Repent or perish!" which seems quite brutal, until the way to avoid perishing is examined in scripture. Perish means a second death. There are some instances where a 2nd death (death of the Spirit) will be the judgement sadly, but these people will be those who will not accept Christ or God's Grace even at Judgement Day, so their end is complete. Others although misguided in life who will realise the truth of the Saviour even at last will be due God's Grace but perhaps not in such great abundance. 'In my Father's house are many mansions' which rather suggests that there are many levels of 'Glory' depending on our faith and works. Fortunately for all of us Jesus will stand by us as our advocate before God. I believe that even the lowest echelons will be so amazing that we cannot imagine it. So our souls are not immortal after all then … |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2024 21:49:59 GMT
There are some instances where a 2nd death (death of the Spirit) will be the judgement sadly, but these people will be those who will not accept Christ or God's Grace even at Judgement Day, so their end is complete. Others although misguided in life who will realise the truth of the Saviour even at last will be due God's Grace but perhaps not in such great abundance. 'In my Father's house are many mansions' which rather suggests that there are many levels of 'Glory' depending on our faith and works. Fortunately for all of us Jesus will stand by us as our advocate before God. I believe that even the lowest echelons will be so amazing that we cannot imagine it. So our souls are not immortal after all then … True - Unless they can survive the lake of fire. Unrepentant souls will perish in the lake of fire: Repentance is only possible before the first death. www.gotquestions.org/second-death.html explains it quite well. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 2, 2024 22:16:51 GMT
So our souls are not immortal after all then … True - Unless they can survive the lake of fire. Unrepentant souls will perish in the lake of fire: Repentance is only possible before the first death. www.gotquestions.org/second-death.html explains it quite well. I suspect that one look at the lake of fire would be enough to convince one to repent. God and Jesus seem very much like a good old fashion judicial institution team like the Spanish Inquisition. |
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Post by Ripley on Feb 2, 2024 23:15:04 GMT
I had been a Christian some years before I realised that forgiving others is not an option, it is a command. However, forgiving others does not necessarily mean restoration to the previous position AFAIK Hell is still a part of Christian doctrine. Jesus clearly said "Repent or perish!" which seems quite brutal, until the way to avoid perishing is examined in scripture. Perish means a second death. There are some instances where a 2nd death (death of the Spirit) will be the judgement sadly, but these people will be those who will not accept Christ or God's Grace even at Judgement Day, so their end is complete. Others although misguided in life who will realise the truth of the Saviour even at last will be due God's Grace but perhaps not in such great abundance. 'In my Father's house are many mansions' which rather suggests that there are many levels of 'Glory' depending on our faith and works. Fortunately for all of us Jesus will stand by us as our advocate before God. I believe that even the lowest echelons will be so amazing that we cannot imagine it. If god is omniscient, why would Man need an advocate before him? Surely god would already know everything there is to know about you? |
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Post by piglet on Feb 3, 2024 11:07:35 GMT
Ultimate death is possible, that does not trump eternal life, we exist, all is volatile, we go forward or backward, staying where you are is not possible. Your journey to an ultimate death is long indeed, and requires a spirit to actively seek evil at all times. I think i read about this in a Rudolf Steiner book, or that other mystic, i cant remember his name.
It takes eons to die for good, and must be a choice, thats my opinion, if not, what else was there?, that evil can continue, unchecked? If we compare death on this plane to a spiritual death, there is no comparison, death in the spirit is cataclysmic, death here is nothing in comparison, it shakes the heavens. And the spirit is aware of whats happening, and in the process of death, the spirit suffers unmeasurable agony in all ways, over many eons.
Thats not nice. Which throws up another problem, that of forgiveness, can unchecked, unlimited, ongoing, brutal, merciless evil be forgiven?
For it to thrive, carry on, the upshot is that forgiveness has boundaries, it must be so. Can it be like having a physical body, that a rotten tooth or a cancer must be removed.? This throws up another problem that is fundamental, unchallenged, that for every force there is an equal and opposing force, this means that evil is written into the DNA of this plane, for every St Francis of Assisi, there is a Putin. Does that mean evil cannot be defeated, or can it?, in this world anyway, that a cloven hooved horned bastard does stalk the earth.
Just saying like.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2024 12:27:14 GMT
There are some instances where a 2nd death (death of the Spirit) will be the judgement sadly, but these people will be those who will not accept Christ or God's Grace even at Judgement Day, so their end is complete. Others although misguided in life who will realise the truth of the Saviour even at last will be due God's Grace but perhaps not in such great abundance. 'In my Father's house are many mansions' which rather suggests that there are many levels of 'Glory' depending on our faith and works. Fortunately for all of us Jesus will stand by us as our advocate before God. I believe that even the lowest echelons will be so amazing that we cannot imagine it. So our souls are not immortal after all then … As I understand it the body plus the Spirit make the Soul - the first death is when the Spirit is separated from the body.. The 2nd death is separation from God. Eternity is promised to all so eternal removal from God would seem pretty dire and the depiction of eternal flames and horror is daunting. I also understand that judgement is not just by God alone but by those appointed almost like a jury made up of those deemed worthy throughout the ages. Hence Jesus as advocate. He went through his ordeal in Gethsemane partly to equip him with all the experiences of the world's pain and horror in order to take that role. I appreciate that I am probably out of sync with most folk but it all seems very logical for me. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 3, 2024 12:44:31 GMT
So our souls are not immortal after all then … As I understand it the body plus the Spirit make the Soul - the first death is when the Spirit is separated from the body.. The 2nd death is separation from God. Eternity is promised to all so eternal removal from God would seem pretty dire and the depiction of eternal flames and horror is daunting. I also understand that judgement is not just by God alone but by those appointed almost like a jury made up of those deemed worthy throughout the ages. Hence Jesus as advocate. He went through his ordeal in Gethsemane partly to equip him with all the experiences of the world's pain and horror in order to take that role. I appreciate that I am probably out of sync with most folk but it all seems very logical for me. So a judicial institution team like the Spanish Inquisition but far worse. Where exactly in the Bible does it tell us about this ? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2024 13:21:30 GMT
As I understand it the body plus the Spirit make the Soul - the first death is when the Spirit is separated from the body.. The 2nd death is separation from God. Eternity is promised to all so eternal removal from God would seem pretty dire and the depiction of eternal flames and horror is daunting. I also understand that judgement is not just by God alone but by those appointed almost like a jury made up of those deemed worthy throughout the ages. Hence Jesus as advocate. He went through his ordeal in Gethsemane partly to equip him with all the experiences of the world's pain and horror in order to take that role. I appreciate that I am probably out of sync with most folk but it all seems very logical for me. So a judicial institution team like the Spanish Inquisition but far worse. Where exactly in the Bible does it tell us about this ? You are a task master! The references are out there if you care to research but here are some. You have limited me to the Bible so that is where I have stayed John 5:22
New Testament
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Matthew 19:28
New Testament
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.(NB Do not comfort yourself on not perhaps being Jewish and that it doesn't count. We are all from the same stock and somewhere in our ancestral line we will fit) Luke 22:30
New Testament
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.The last judgement is mentioned many times in the Bible both BC and AD. interestingly the stories are all very alike. |
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Post by Bentley on Feb 3, 2024 15:58:11 GMT
So a judicial institution team like the Spanish Inquisition but far worse. Where exactly in the Bible does it tell us about this ? You are a task master! The references are out there if you care to research but here are some. You have limited me to the Bible so that is where I have stayed John 5:22
New Testament
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Matthew 19:28
New Testament
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.(NB Do not comfort yourself on not perhaps being Jewish and that it doesn't count. We are all from the same stock and somewhere in our ancestral line we will fit) Luke 22:30
New Testament
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.The last judgement is mentioned many times in the Bible both BC and AD. interestingly the stories are all very alike. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father” This clearly states that the “ father “ will not be involved in the judicial team . Which contradicts your claim. “And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. This clearly states that ‘ the son of man ‘ will judge ‘ the 12 tribes ofIsrael’. At yet you have taken it upon yourself to attribute a different meaning. The quotes that you posted do not say what you claim that they do. You taken a few sentences ( obscure riddles ?)in the Bible and rehashed them to make up a meaning that contradicts the original. If your religious construct is correct , the ‘pious and good’ that were lucky enough to become full cult members will sit together and decide what kind of torture ( eternal or otherwise )to inflict on the people who were not full members . |
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Post by piglet on Feb 4, 2024 10:12:46 GMT
Judgement happens, its how things are, near death experiencers say upon death we judge ourselves. There can be a psychological loop, when depressed it can be ongoing, " did i upset so and so, could i have done that better?, " etc, i can ruminate on things i did years ago, all day long, sleep seems to solve the problem. Judgement is positive, its like asking " where did i go wrong.?"
And upon understanding it, correction can be made, how is pedantic, im sure the processes, spiritual, heaven like, earthly, and the form it takes, im sure can be as varied as there are stars in the heavens. As for punishment of such, im sure its appropriate to the stage of development you are at. I dont need my bottom smacking, upon making mistakes i torture myself.
Without pain, correction, there is no progress, pain of whatever sort is good. Do you need your bottom smacking Bentley, i wonder, consider this a chance to confess, ive been to confession many times, a good thing about catholicism. Im kidding, self reflection is good, im kidding about your bottom needing smacking. I havent been to confession since childhood, i must reconsider, it would be like clearing your cookie folder.
And starting again, psychology must develop something like it.
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Post by Bentley on Feb 4, 2024 11:04:31 GMT
Judgement happens, its how things are, near death experiencers say upon death we judge ourselves. There can be a psychological loop, when depressed it can be ongoing, " did i upset so and so, could i have done that better?, " etc, i can ruminate on things i did years ago, all day long, sleep seems to solve the problem. Judgement is positive, its like asking " where did i go wrong.?" And upon understanding it, correction can be made, how is pedantic, im sure the processes, spiritual, heaven like, earthly, and the form it takes, im sure can be as varied as there are stars in the heavens. As for punishment of such, im sure its appropriate to the stage of development you are at. I dont need my bottom smacking, upon making mistakes i torture myself. Without pain, correction, there is no progress, pain of whatever sort is good. Do you need your bottom smacking Bentley, i wonder, consider this a chance to confess, ive been to confession many times, a good thing about catholicism. Im kidding, self reflection is good, im kidding about your bottom needing smacking. I havent been to confession since childhood, i must reconsider, it would be like clearing your cookie folder. And starting again, psychology must develop something like it. I’m always up for a bit of spanking , Piglet. Self reflection? Vipassana Meditation is good for that . Clears your thoughts and your unconscious does the rest . I learned that and Transcendental years ago. Its there if I need it . |
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