|
|
Post by Bentley on Jan 13, 2024 19:07:38 GMT
Wales was no better than England when its public services, health services, business infrastructure and economy were governed by parliament in london and administered by the civil service under the auspices of the welsh office at Cathays Park. This scenario applied in pretty much equal measure, i.e. the treatment of wales as oppised to england was roughly the same under Major, Thatcher, Callaghan, Heath, Wilson, (these are the prime ministers i personally recall) and i recall little from my grandmother to suggest any difference all the way back to Lloyd George. The Home Counties have ALWAYS has it better than Wales But it took s devolved assembly run as a unicameral, unopposed dictatorship by Welsh Labour to drive the standards to the pit of hell they have now descended to compared to England. That descent began with Rhodri Morgan whingeing at the Blair government and has only accelerated downwards since. I have long believed that England would end up looking like Wales if Farage were ever prime minister. These people are all gob and no practical idea how things should be run. In the old days of the British establishment there was a class of men where father taught son how to rule. They honed a system through public school education that was tried and tested over many generations. When you refer to ‘ public school’ you mean Eton, Rugby etc , right ? |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 13, 2024 19:28:17 GMT
All very well but Labour have been in control of the Welsh Economy, the Welsh NHS and Welsh Public Services without interruption sonce 1999 and are on all counts abysmally worse than England. But is it any better or worse than what went before it in Wales? well what a stupid fucking comment. prior to 1999 , there wasn't any devolution as you well know , so how the fuck can we compare devolved government in Wales when we have nothing to compare to? think it fair to say Wales has experienced massive economic and social decline . Wether this is as a result of devolution , or would have happened anyway under the old unitary centralised system is hard to say. what's clear to point out is that labour have certainly not managed devolution successfully. , when compared to Scotland under the snp. We had similar problems to what the welsh were experiencing prior to 2007 , when we booted the labour clowns out. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 13, 2024 19:31:50 GMT
No , you moaned that someone left leaning should somehow support Labour , with the insinuation they are left leaning , and I pointed out anyone who thinks starmers party is left leaning shouldn't be posting on a uk politics forum. We have former and current labour politicians like abbot and Corbyn saying starmers party is right wing , we have former labour card carrying members like srb Steve on this forum saying it , and many others as well including lefties like owen jones. so get your facts straight. The problems as I see it in uk politics , among much else , is that neither of the majority parties are actually left or right , but merely increasingly globalist centrists , parroting unpopular policies , with the tories having abandoned any form of conservatism , while Labour have abandoned the very socialism the party was founded upon. That criticism is also aimed at the uks third party , the nu SNP. Would that be forner labour politican That is undoubtedly far left and lead labour to there worst defeat in 30+years because the British public won't vote for a far left wing Government Yep it is. And let's not forget that the labour membership was Boosted by Conservativeso Paying a few quid to vote for Corbyn To become labour leader because they knew that this Country would not vote for a left wing Government. And has for Owen Jones has much has I agree with a lot of things he says . There no doubt hes far left Corbyn in 2017 , regarded by many like yourself as hard left, took more votes for labour than any other labour leader with the exception of Blair in 1997 going way back to the 1979 election. |
|
|
|
Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 13, 2024 19:39:30 GMT
I have long believed that England would end up looking like Wales if Farage were ever prime minister. These people are all gob and no practical idea how things should be run. In the old days of the British establishment there was a class of men where father taught son how to rule. They honed a system through public school education that was tried and tested over many generations. When you refer to ‘ public school’ you mean Eton, Rugby etc , right ? Harrow is also an important one. The fees keep the proletariat out, but for those already in the system, the education returns more than enough to pay for the next generation. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Jan 13, 2024 19:42:12 GMT
When you refer to ‘ public school’ you mean Eton, Rugby etc , right ? Harrow is also an important one. The fees keep the proletariat out, but for those already in the system, the education returns more than enough to pay for the next generation. Ok. |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Jan 13, 2024 19:50:41 GMT
But is it any better or worse than what went before it in Wales? well what a stupid fucking comment. prior to 1999 , there wasn't any devolution as you well know , so how the fuck can we compare devolved government in Wales when we have nothing to compare to? think it fair to say Wales has experienced massive economic and social decline . Wether this is as a result of devolution , or would have happened anyway under the old unitary centralised system is hard to say. what's clear to point out is that labour have certainly not managed devolution successfully. , when compared to Scotland under the snp. We had similar problems to what the welsh were experiencing prior to 2007 , when we booted the labour clowns out. Utsc It's not a silly question were talking about who has the best ability to rule the United Kingdom Not about devoid Governments rule . Ive proven how Labour will be a better Governments to Manage the Country. History Compared to the Conservatives proof this. You try and continue to muddy the waters About Welsh labour. |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jan 13, 2024 20:22:16 GMT
well what a stupid fucking comment. prior to 1999 , there wasn't any devolution as you well know , so how the fuck can we compare devolved government in Wales when we have nothing to compare to? think it fair to say Wales has experienced massive economic and social decline . Wether this is as a result of devolution , or would have happened anyway under the old unitary centralised system is hard to say. what's clear to point out is that labour have certainly not managed devolution successfully. , when compared to Scotland under the snp. We had similar problems to what the welsh were experiencing prior to 2007 , when we booted the labour clowns out. Utsc It's not a silly question were talking about who has the best ability to rule the United Kingdom Not about devoid Governments rule . Ive proven how Labour will be a better Governments to Manage the Country. History Compared to the Conservatives proof this. You try and continue to muddy the waters About Welsh labour. In all aspects where Wankford, Carwyn The Clod before him, Rhodri Morgan before him, and Alun something or other first of all, ran the devolved aspects of Wales - as in Health, Business, Education and Transport from 1999 onwards, the people who lived here suffered worse treatment than that meted out to the English It is not ‘muddying the waters’ to remind you that by every measured published statistic ,wales under the direction of an uncontrolled socialist government running a unicameral administration devoid of checks and balances fucked over the people to a degree unknown in the rest of the UK, even the twonks to the north of berwick on tweed |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Jan 13, 2024 20:38:40 GMT
Utsc It's not a silly question were talking about who has the best ability to rule the United Kingdom Not about devoid Governments rule . Ive proven how Labour will be a better Governments to Manage the Country. History Compared to the Conservatives proof this. You try and continue to muddy the waters About Welsh labour. In all aspects where Wankford, Carwyn The Clod before him, Rhodri Morgan before him, and Alun something or other first of all, ran the devolved aspects of Wales - as in Health, Business, Education and Transport from 1999 onwards, the people who lived here suffered worse treatment than that meted out to the English It is not ‘muddying the waters’ to remind you that by every measured published statistic ,wales under the direction of an uncontrolled socialist government running a unicameral administration devoid of checks and balances fucked over the people to a degree unknown in the rest of the UK, even the twonks to the north of berwick on tweed OK I get your point but would you has a Welsh person explain why the Welsh people Continue to vote labour to lead the Welsh Nation if there so bad . Are the Welsh people so stupid or don't they believe that there a credible alternative? |
|
|
|
Post by johnofgwent on Jan 13, 2024 21:08:44 GMT
In all aspects where Wankford, Carwyn The Clod before him, Rhodri Morgan before him, and Alun something or other first of all, ran the devolved aspects of Wales - as in Health, Business, Education and Transport from 1999 onwards, the people who lived here suffered worse treatment than that meted out to the English It is not ‘muddying the waters’ to remind you that by every measured published statistic ,wales under the direction of an uncontrolled socialist government running a unicameral administration devoid of checks and balances fucked over the people to a degree unknown in the rest of the UK, even the twonks to the north of berwick on tweed OK I get your point but would you has a Welsh person explain why the Welsh people Continue to vote labour to lead the Welsh Nation if there so bad . Are the Welsh people so stupid or don't they believe that there a credible alternative? Well of course they DON’T ‘continue to vote labour’ In common with almost two thirds of the country, less than forty per cent, often less than thirty per cent, of the voters ACTUALLY VOTE FOR the sitting candidate. The vagaries of the FPTP system guarantee that for the often sixty per cent of the voters who do not want that person elected, there is no point in voting as their vote won't do anything which is why so many don’t vote at all. Now, there are notable reasons why some places see fit to put their support in the left. Most usually because the right see fit to do fuck all about admitting they fucked some people over for the fun of it and danced the night away after. But by the same token large numbers of people in rather decent jobs, myself included by the way, see the left as doing nothing except shitting on us from a great height the way thatcher shat on the miners. Now, my hatred of the left doesn’t extend to voting for the woman who only got where she is because her dad demanded it as a bribe to stop being a cottage burner and become a tory, because i don't vote for corrupt scum or the beneficiaries of corrupt scum. But some people’s hatred of the right means they will vote for the left. And i’m not ‘welsh’ I am british, of viking ancestry. Even my celtic matriarchal distaff line had a thing for tall blinde blue eyed norsemen, my mitochondrial DNA oroves it. My place of birth was a combination of a need for radar, missile and other systems to be developed beyond the range of Hitler’s bombers and a failure of an ambulance driver to reach my mother in time to get her to decent health care in England. Yes, even under Supermac and the era of never having it so good, wales had a third rate ambulance service….. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 13, 2024 21:22:25 GMT
well what a stupid fucking comment. prior to 1999 , there wasn't any devolution as you well know , so how the fuck can we compare devolved government in Wales when we have nothing to compare to? think it fair to say Wales has experienced massive economic and social decline . Wether this is as a result of devolution , or would have happened anyway under the old unitary centralised system is hard to say. what's clear to point out is that labour have certainly not managed devolution successfully. , when compared to Scotland under the snp. We had similar problems to what the welsh were experiencing prior to 2007 , when we booted the labour clowns out. Utsc It's not a silly question were talking about who has the best ability to rule the United Kingdom Not about devoid Governments rule . Ive proven how Labour will be a better Governments to Manage the Country. History Compared to the Conservatives proof this. You try and continue to muddy the waters About Welsh labour. Eh? Re read the question , which was , was Wales better run prior to devolution and the uninterrupted labour governance post welsh devolution. With the limited powers of devolution , the snp have proved labour are useless. At uk level , the tories have proved labour are useless , which is why since universal suffrage , the tories have won two thirds of uk general elections. so to recap , at council , national , and Westminster levels , labour are a horror show that everyone outside of Wales has come to recognise , and the welsh hopefully are waking up . |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Jan 13, 2024 21:31:04 GMT
OK I get your point but would you has a Welsh person explain why the Welsh people Continue to vote labour to lead the Welsh Nation if there so bad . Are the Welsh people so stupid or don't they believe that there a credible alternative? Well of course they DON’T ‘continue to vote labour’ In common with almost two thirds of the country, less than forty per cent, often less than thirty per cent, of the voters ACTUALLY VOTE FOR the sitting candidate. The vagaries of the FPTP system guarantee that for the often sixty per cent of the voters who do not want that person elected, there is no point in voting as their vote won't do anything which is why so many don’t vote at all. Now, there are notable reasons why some places see fit to put their support in the left. Most usually because the right see fit to do fuck all about admitting they fucked some people over for the fun of it and danced the night away after. But by the same token large numbers of people in rather decent jobs, myself included by the way, see the left as doing nothing except shitting on us from a great height the way thatcher shat on the miners. Now, my hatred of the left doesn’t extend to voting for the woman who only got where she is because her dad demanded it as a bribe to stop being a cottage burner and become a tory, because i don't vote for corrupt scum or the beneficiaries of corrupt scum. But some people’s hatred of the right means they will vote for the left. And i’m not ‘welsh’ I am british, of viking ancestry. Even my celtic matriarchal distaff line had a thing for tall blinde blue eyed norsemen, my mitochondrial DNA oroves it. My place of birth was a combination of a need for radar, missile and other systems to be developed beyond the range of Hitler’s bombers and a failure of an ambulance driver to reach my mother in time to get her to decent health care in England. Yes, even under Supermac and the era of never having it so good, wales had a third rate ambulance service….. you are not British John. You aspire to be English , but the sassunachs don't want you. one of my friends is from Caernarfon. He doesn't speak his native language , so the locals call him a cofi sais. I guess you are what they would call a Casnewydd sais .  (fucking Monmouth is English......get fucking out of here John.  ) |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Jan 13, 2024 21:54:05 GMT
Utsc It's not a silly question were talking about who has the best ability to rule the United Kingdom Not about devoid Governments rule . Ive proven how Labour will be a better Governments to Manage the Country. History Compared to the Conservatives proof this. You try and continue to muddy the waters About Welsh labour. Eh? Re read the question , which was , was Wales better run prior to devolution and the uninterrupted labour governance post welsh devolution. With the limited powers of devolution , the snp have proved labour are useless. At uk level , the tories have proved labour are useless , which is why since universal suffrage , the tories have won two thirds of uk general elections. so to recap , at council , national , and Westminster levels , labour are a horror show that everyone outside of Wales has come to recognise , and the welsh hopefully are waking up . The main reason why the Conservative have won so many elections. Is Because the voting public wrongkey Belivedj that the Tory party was better at Managing the Economy what is often top. Of the voting public concern. My post shows this isn't so. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 13, 2024 22:25:23 GMT
well what a stupid fucking comment. prior to 1999 , there wasn't any devolution as you well know , so how the fuck can we compare devolved government in Wales when we have nothing to compare to? think it fair to say Wales has experienced massive economic and social decline . Wether this is as a result of devolution , or would have happened anyway under the old unitary centralised system is hard to say. what's clear to point out is that labour have certainly not managed devolution successfully. , when compared to Scotland under the snp. We had similar problems to what the welsh were experiencing prior to 2007 , when we booted the labour clowns out. Utsc It's not a silly question were talking about who has the best ability to rule the United Kingdom Not about devoid Governments rule . Ive proven how Labour will be a better Governments to Manage the Country. History Compared to the Conservatives proof this. You try and continue to muddy the waters About Welsh labour. if Labour are unable to run Wales better that the Tories run England why would Labour be an improvement in England? you keep running away from this simple question.. |
|
|
|
Post by Totheleft on Jan 13, 2024 22:32:51 GMT
Utsc It's not a silly question were talking about who has the best ability to rule the United Kingdom Not about devoid Governments rule . Ive proven how Labour will be a better Governments to Manage the Country. History Compared to the Conservatives proof this. You try and continue to muddy the waters About Welsh labour. if Labour are unable to run Wales better that the Tories run England why would Labour be an improvement in England? you keep running away from this simple question.. Oh My I'm not running away from that Question . I've Answer it several times by Showing the Historical facts that labour are better at running the British government . |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Jan 13, 2024 22:37:28 GMT
if Labour are unable to run Wales better that the Tories run England why would Labour be an improvement in England? you keep running away from this simple question.. Oh My I'm not running away from that Question . I've Answer it several times by Showing the Historical facts that labour are better at running the British government . and as I have said - rewriting of history is pointless. So lets keep to the here and now - why is Labour not running Wales better than the Tories run England today? Why are Labour doing so bad today? |
|
)
