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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 11, 2022 2:14:04 GMT
I used to be pro ID cards, that was probably because I still had my 'army' head on, so to speak. In more recent years I've become very suspicious of ID cards. I understand they may help prevent various fraud, and an ID card would immediately verify your identity to a police officer. What's the problem. Well it's not that simple is it, ID cards these days carry digital, biometric even facial recognition info. The chip on German and French ID cards holds a world of information about the holder and with increasing digital technology and a cashless society, I feel real freedom is being lost without most people realising it.
I am aware ID cards are not compulsory in every EU state. All EU states have ID cards, not all are compulsory. 15 EU states have compulsory ID cards.
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Post by Toreador on Nov 11, 2022 7:06:42 GMT
I used to be pro ID cards, that was probably because I still had my 'army' head on, so to speak. In more recent years I've become very suspicious of ID cards. I understand they may help prevent various fraud, and an ID card would immediately verify your identity to a police officer. What's the problem. Well it's not that simple is it, ID cards these days carry digital, biometric even facial recognition info. The chip on German and French ID cards holds a world of information about the holder and with increasing digital technology and a cashless society, I feel real freedom is being lost without most people realising it. I am aware ID cards are not compulsory in every EU state. All EU states have ID cards, not all are compulsory. 15 EU states have compulsory ID cards. I suspect the ultimate aim is fore every person in the EU to have an ID card....unless of course they're one of thousands of immigrants. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Nov 11, 2022 7:26:57 GMT
I used to be pro ID cards, that was probably because I still had my 'army' head on, so to speak. In more recent years I've become very suspicious of ID cards. I understand they may help prevent various fraud, and an ID card would immediately verify your identity to a police officer. What's the problem. Well it's not that simple is it, ID cards these days carry digital, biometric even facial recognition info. The chip on German and French ID cards holds a world of information about the holder and with increasing digital technology and a cashless society, I feel real freedom is being lost without most people realising it. I am aware ID cards are not compulsory in every EU state. All EU states have ID cards, not all are compulsory. 15 EU states have compulsory ID cards. I suspect the ultimate aim is fore every person in the EU to have an ID card....unless of course they're one of thousands of immigrants. I have every confidence the ultimate aim is to have everyone on a digital database, Blair openly called for it in the 1990's. Since then things have moved on, quite a lot. ID cards and a cashless society, it gives the 'state' total control. People will have no privacy. This isn't dystopian fearmongering; it's already happening, and the reason it's happening is because most people are happy to carry hand held trackers 24/7 and do online banking and use plastic rather than cash. We are voluntarily walking into a surveillance society that even Orwell couldn't imagine. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 11, 2022 8:36:49 GMT
I'm in favour. Remember that one of the pull factors for all these illegals is that the UK has a thriving black economy. It's very hard for employers to establish whether a potential employee is legit. An ID card could solve that. It would also be handy in many cases where you have to prove your identity - rather than showing a driving licence, which not everyone has.
The problem as always is making sure of the identity of people in order to issue a car and preventing fakes. But I still think it will be better than nothing.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 11, 2022 8:56:05 GMT
I'm in favour. Remember that one of the pull factors for all these illegals is that the UK has a thriving black economy. It's very hard for employers to establish whether a potential employee is legit. An ID card could solve that. It would also be handy in many cases where you have to prove your identity - rather than showing a driving licence, which not everyone has. The problem as always is making sure of the identity of people in order to issue a car and preventing fakes. But I still think it will be better than nothing. There are many advantages as regards controlling services etc. Unfortunately there are also major disadvantages in terms of controlling people and it is not just the people who are working in the black economy it is all the innocent citizens who will find their lives controlled corruptly. Take smart meters as an example, some people are being moved without their consent to pre-paid meterage which can be done at the flick of a switch by the electric company. If an ID card or a smart meter gives some the power to control, irrespective of supposed safeguards, that power will be used in ways we can only guess at. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 11, 2022 9:05:49 GMT
An alternative approach would be to require ID cards for all resident foreigners.
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Post by dappy on Nov 11, 2022 9:14:30 GMT
Not sure I see the benefits to justify the huge cost.
The vast law-abiding majority would carry them to little or no end , those up to no good would almost certainly not or use forgeries.
I think its 75-80%of adults have passports and some who dont have driving licenses. Most have wallets stuffed full of credit, debit and supermarket cards. Not sure I see need for another one.
Have we spoken to those countries that do have one and assessed what real benefits they accrue
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 11, 2022 10:36:13 GMT
I'm all for ID proof, but I would prefer more of a finger print method, I'm not in to this big brother is tracking you technology, all these illegal migrants should be finger printed and given a ID card, if they are pulled up and can't produce it kick them out of the country.
If the benefits system use a finger print ID system to claim benefits I can guarantee you the benefits bill will drastically reduce, because many people are claiming benefits in multiple names and addresses, but of course if you suggested this we'd have the loony lefties going off their rockers.
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Post by Toreador on Nov 11, 2022 11:21:57 GMT
Back around 2010 the Tories scrapped an overly expensive medical card started by Labour; I hat to think whether backhanders were in play as the costs spiralled out of control and I think the cost at the time of cancellation was £11 billion. Whilst the Tories rightfully found it a useless venture they have never come up with their own solution.
A system works in France, is virtually infallible and could easily be used as an ID card for immigrants needing medical treatment.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 11, 2022 11:38:59 GMT
Back around 2010 the Tories scrapped an overly expensive medical card started by Labour; I hat to think whether backhanders were in play as the costs spiralled out of control and I think the cost at the time of cancellation was £11 billion. Whilst the Tories rightfully found it a useless venture they have never come up with their own solution. A system works in France, is virtually infallible and could easily be used as an ID card for immigrants needing medical treatment. Different systems - in France the money follows the patients so they need to know who to bill. |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 11, 2022 11:58:27 GMT
Back around 2010 the Tories scrapped an overly expensive medical card started by Labour; I hat to think whether backhanders were in play as the costs spiralled out of control and I think the cost at the time of cancellation was £11 billion. Whilst the Tories rightfully found it a useless venture they have never come up with their own solution. A system works in France, is virtually infallible and could easily be used as an ID card for immigrants needing medical treatment. Different systems - in France the money follows the patients so they need to know who to bill. Yes I know but for an immigrant to get medical treatment without a card would be impossible other than through bribery but if the doctor issued a prescription it would have to get past the pharmacy, hospital or any other branch of the service. An old buddy of mine never had supplementary insurance and wasn't covered for other than chronic diseases. When he was admitted to hospital they took out a lien on his house for medical care which the duly executed to the tune of some 8,000 euros upon his death. It probably isn't the perfect process but it would serve a purpose; I understand that in Spain, they ask for your credit or debit card where you are not registered or have no health insurance. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Nov 11, 2022 13:58:33 GMT
Not sure I see the benefits to justify the huge cost. The vast law-abiding majority would carry them to little or no end , those up to no good would almost certainly not or use forgeries. I'd suggest they could be made voluntary to start with - like France. And the cost would be borne by the citizen. I'd get one for the convenience of having a single piece of identification. As for your second point that's always a problem. We have strict gun legislation requiring licences for firearms but criminals can still get hold of firearms whenever they want. The ID card would only be as good as the process for verifying a person's identity. And so many people in this country are carrying fake identity nowadays because of years of lack of border control. It would be a mammoth job to establish the actual identity of the whole population. But it would allow us to deport vast numbers of people if we did it properly - most of them criminals. |
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Post by bancroft on Nov 11, 2022 14:26:23 GMT
With credit cards, driving licenses and passports and the police ability to hold you for so long without charge, I don't see the need.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 11, 2022 15:03:25 GMT
Not sure I see the benefits to justify the huge cost. The vast law-abiding majority would carry them to little or no end , those up to no good would almost certainly not or use forgeries. I'd suggest they could be made voluntary to start with - like France. And the cost would be borne by the citizen. I'd get one for the convenience of having a single piece of identification. As for your second point that's always a problem. We have strict gun legislation requiring licences for firearms but criminals can still get hold of firearms whenever they want. The ID card would only be as good as the process for verifying a person's identity. And so many people in this country are carrying fake identity nowadays because of years of lack of border control. It would be a mammoth job to establish the actual identity of the whole population. But it would allow us to deport vast numbers of people if we did it properly - most of them criminals. We do not need to; offer limited but generous assistance to illegal migrants to return home for a year. Any that do not come forward within the year and are subsequently found deported asap with no assistance and the border force strengthened to be a border force. Of course we would have to leave the ECHR and delete the Human Rights Act. I know the argument is that these acts protect us all but at what cost. There has to be a balance. We protected Abu Qatada and it cost us over £10million. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 11, 2022 15:05:04 GMT
With credit cards, driving licenses and passports and the police ability to hold you for so long without charge, I don't see the need. Yes, enough already |
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