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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 17:37:21 GMT
No, but as I say its putting my wife through it I object to. Can't she just bung you in a home? At £6,000 a month. Yes if you can afford it. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 17:45:05 GMT
The trouble with that is removing intervention can mean a very long slow decline to death. Try removing the intervention for someone with motor neuron disease. Sure. However, you are making my 'slippery slope' argument for me. The slippery slope argument is that a significant number of children would talk the parents into suicide. I don't believe that to be true. And.. My protection from that is the living will written at a time the kids were not even thinking about bumping off mum to get the dosh. If aged 60 I write down with the guidance of an expert the circumstances under which I would end my life, then nothing my children say when I'm 85 changes that. Maybe we could put in that you cannot overwrite a living will beyond the age of 75. That would offer further protection. |
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Post by Orac on Jan 9, 2024 18:12:16 GMT
Zany - it is more underground than selfish children talking their parents into things. The fact that the option exists exerts a moral pressure. I'm uneasy with such dilemmas existing. The dying person is forced to choose the burden they create. I'm not sure that's moral. You have offered something here, but i'm not sure if this just changes when the pressure is exerted.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2024 18:57:43 GMT
Clearly dementia is a very difficult illness to handle, but I don't see a "right to die" as being a solution. Better care might be a solution.
My father died in his eighties from bowel cancer which had spread to his liver and it wasn't discovered until it was a hopeless case. He was suffering in his last days when we flew over to say goodbye, but I wouldn't say he was in agonising pain. He was lucid, but physically weak. He was on morphine which depresses the respiration, the dose was increased by the hospital staff and he faded away in the early hours of a morning, about 15 years ago.
I think the hospital staff got it right in this case. Professionals are usually in the best position to make well informed decisions without too much emotion.
I think we all need to be dealt with compassionately and sensitively. In the UK there is currently no "right to die" and I don't think there should be. It is fraught with potential problems, ethical, legal and financial.
We will all die eventually, sometimes we have to wait.
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 19:01:02 GMT
Zany - it is more underground than selfish children talking their parents into things. The fact that the option exists exerts a moral pressure. I'm uneasy with such dilemmas existing. The dying person is forced to choose the burden they create. I'm not sure that's moral. You have offered something here, but i'm not sure if this just changes when the pressure is exerted. It takes an awful lot of moral pressure from the authorities to make someone who doesn't want to end their life. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 19:04:37 GMT
Clearly dementia is a very difficult illness to handle, but I don't see a "right to die" as being a solution. Better care might be a solution. My father died in his eighties from bowel cancer which had spread to his liver and it wasn't discovered until it was a hopeless case. He was suffering in his last days when we flew over to say goodbye, but I wouldn't say he was in agonising pain. He was lucid, but physically weak. He was on morphine which depresses the respiration, the dose was increased by the hospital staff and he faded away in the early hours of a morning, about 15 years ago. I think the hospital staff got it right in this case. Professionals are usually in the best position to make well informed decisions without too much emotion. I think we all need to be dealt with compassionately and sensitively. In the UK there is currently no "right to die" and I don't think there should be. It is fraught with potential problems, ethical, legal and financial. We will all die eventually, sometimes we have to wait. Have you watched the video BW? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2024 19:08:31 GMT
Yes
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 19:15:16 GMT
Thank you. I just wanted to know if you would want to put that pain on your wife? I couldn't ask unless you had seen the video. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2024 19:21:53 GMT
Thank you. I just wanted to know if you would want to put that pain on your wife? I couldn't ask unless you had seen the video. My wife and I married for better, for worse, and we won't back out or drop off the edge when it is worse. |
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Post by Orac on Jan 9, 2024 19:40:19 GMT
Zany - it is more underground than selfish children talking their parents into things. The fact that the option exists exerts a moral pressure. I'm uneasy with such dilemmas existing. The dying person is forced to choose the burden they create. I'm not sure that's moral. You have offered something here, but i'm not sure if this just changes when the pressure is exerted. It takes an awful lot of moral pressure from the authorities to make someone who doesn't want to end their life. I'm not talking about pressure from the authorities, though that's certainly not out of the question. People will severely risk their lives for their family's well being or to avoid familial shame. |
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Post by seniorcitizen007 on Jan 9, 2024 20:51:40 GMT
When, in the early 90s, the Netherlands government legalised euthanasia, when the law was passed, their Minister of Health stood up, raised her fist in the air and loudly proclaimed "YES!"
Two days later she proposed that elderly people who had no significant health problems but were "tired of life" should be able to go to their doctor and be prescribed suicide pills.
Here in the UK there was a televised discussion about whether it would be ethical to terminate the majority of people with Alzheimer's ... "Just keep a few for research".
One doctor suggested that young schizophrenics should not have to suffer a lifetime of this terrible, incurable disease. They should be terminated ... and their organs used for transplants.
In the midst of all this the Rwanda genocide occurred ... and a surprising number of people were saying things like: "Let them get on with it. There's too many people in the world".
On the 9th May 1994 the House of Lords discussed 'The Lords select committee report on Medical Ethics' (which the media called 'The Euthanasia Bill") On that day several newspapers confidently predicted that euthanasia would be legalised ... that doctors would be allowed to decide when patients should die.
The Lords came out totally against euthanasia ... because of the appalling attitude of a significant section of the population.
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 21:08:52 GMT
Thank you. I just wanted to know if you would want to put that pain on your wife? I couldn't ask unless you had seen the video. My wife and I married for better, for worse, and we won't back out or drop off the edge when it is worse. Me and mine to. My wife is the loveliest, funniest, prettiest lady you could want. Bright, witty and my best friend. I would not want her looking after my cabbage like body. I would die for her not me. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 21:09:36 GMT
It takes an awful lot of moral pressure from the authorities to make someone who doesn't want to end their life. I'm not talking about pressure from the authorities, though that's certainly not out of the question. People will severely risk their lives for their family's well being or to avoid familial shame. That is their right. |
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Post by Orac on Jan 9, 2024 21:19:13 GMT
I'm not talking about pressure from the authorities, though that's certainly not out of the question. People will severely risk their lives for their family's well being or to avoid familial shame. That is their right. I'm warning of consequences. A right to do something that may be of benefit to others can easily become an obligation under some circumstances. This also involves the co-operation of others. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 21:34:58 GMT
I'm warning of consequences. A right to do something that may be of benefit to others can easily become an obligation under some circumstances. This also involves the co-operation of others. I thought you were in favour of freedom of choice? Liberal? |
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