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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 8, 2024 23:39:30 GMT
Quite. And i agree. We are not talking about compelling medical professionals to perform whatever actions are necessary. We’re talking about removing tbe threat of arrest and charge with murder from those prepared to assist, while preventing both the Harold Shipman's of this world from getting their rocks off by getting in on the act, AND removing the ability of doctors to charge me a fortune for signed documentation certifying the morphine dose administered to my father which caused his demise was medically necessary to deal with the pain of his end stage prostate cancer which had migrated to his lungs drowning him in his own blood plasma. Personally, if it looks like my condition is approaching his, i’m going in search of a firearm. When you put the barrel in your mouth , you might find the need to wait a while before pulling the trigger . Just a minute..every time you try to pull the trigger . I’ve seen how mum and dad went. If i have the ability to command the muscles i don’t think it will be a problem. I’ve been resussed three times remember…. The issue here though isn’t if i have the physical ability to do that. It’s about how to get help when i no longer can. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 8, 2024 23:43:29 GMT
what proportion of abortions do you believe are medically necessary? Why would that be relevant to this discussion? When it's necessary, it's necessary. Well, the original question asked about those MEDICALLY necessary, not necessary because a 15 year old can’t take the consequences of their inaction before the event ….. |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 8, 2024 23:50:20 GMT
Why would that be relevant to this discussion? When it's necessary, it's necessary. Well, the original question asked about those MEDICALLY necessary, not necessary because a 15 year old can’t take the consequences of their inaction before the event ….. I did mean medically necessary. Abortion used as contraception is not strictly necessary. |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 9, 2024 0:39:23 GMT
When you put the barrel in your mouth , you might find the need to wait a while before pulling the trigger . Just a minute..every time you try to pull the trigger . I’ve seen how mum and dad went. If i have the ability to command the muscles i don’t think it will be a problem. I’ve been resussed three times remember…. The issue here though isn’t if i have the physical ability to do that. It’s about how to get help when i no longer can. Oh yeah. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 9, 2024 7:05:23 GMT
I’ve seen how mum and dad went. If i have the ability to command the muscles i don’t think it will be a problem. I’ve been resussed three times remember…. The issue here though isn’t if i have the physical ability to do that. It’s about how to get help when i no longer can. Oh yeah. You clearly do not get it The second time i had to be brought back from clinical death was when the stress of my job, and the three project managers who were using us as tools to bounce around hopelessly fir their own personal advancement in a project in a far worse state than Horizon, caused a gastric reflux in my sleep that blocket my airway with what was essentially vomit. Air could neither be inhaled or exhaled I woke at 3am in a hot sweat, realised i could mot breathe, sat bolt upright, realised i could not cry out, flailed around a bit, failed to dislodge the plug and on realising my predicament stopped fighting and waited for the end It came incredibly serenely about ten seconds later The last thought that passed through my conscious mind was ‘YES !! I’ll never have to deal with that bitch at Gatwick again’ Then all went black Sadly Moira Resuscitated me. I think it was when i uttered those last four words to their HR twat my employer put me on suicide watch. But did fuck all about those project managers. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 7:21:40 GMT
Am with you pretty much. If and when I reach a state where I cannot wipe my own arse or recognise loved ones, I wouldnt really want to live anymore. There is a vast difference between living and merely existing. If I ever reach the stage where I am merely existing, please stop feeding me and just let me die if you are unable for legal reasons to put me to permanent sleep I just couldn't do it to my lovely wonderful wife. I don't want her to spend years looking after a man who has no wit, no conversation and doesn't even know who she is. (here come the jokes) |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 7:24:23 GMT
I think it should be the job of specialists. Maybe, but there is still the question of whether it is right to compel a physician, specialist or whoever to end someone's life. I don't imagine a lot of them would volunteer for that. I don't think you would need a lot and those who trained for it would have the knowledge to deal with it. Many of us love our animal as much as our relatives but we don't imagine our vet struggling to put them down if its needed. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 7:29:14 GMT
That would be neglect and prosecutable. actually, that is exactly how tbe liverpool pathway works. They starve you and withdraw fluid until dehydration causes cardiac failure. They're supposed to carefully calculate the amount of intravenous drug they give you that you don’t notice the problem of extreme thirst. Suffice to say the clowns administering this to my mother when it was decided her multiple mini strokes and steadily worsening mental capacity and dementia had exceeded her DNR point were a bunch of fucking arse holes. It took weeks to kill mum and it nearly drove my brother who was her carer to suicide. When dad went in conditions they would prosecute me if i did it to a dog some fucking clown in a posh clerical frock went on Any Questions to make warm pontifications about palliative care in the UK, and my half page email sent to the programme in response, read out as the first response on Any Answers, utterly crucified the prick. Metaphorically But the twats who were supposed to supervise mum’s departure from her earthly existence just before Jan 2019’s New Year but dragged the process out for nearly a fortnight deserve something far less theoretical, and requires a few metres of 4x4 and some nails. The Liverpool pathway is only used in the last few days of your life when the cocktail of drugs can no longer balance your failing organs. Once you are sedated you have no idea how long its taking you to die, but its unpleasant for your love ones. Its how my dad ended his life. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 7:32:54 GMT
Why would that be relevant to this discussion? When it's necessary, it's necessary. Well, the original question asked about those MEDICALLY necessary, not necessary because a 15 year old can’t take the consequences of their inaction before the event ….. Its also a question of when life is sentient. So the comparison doesn't work well. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 9, 2024 7:47:55 GMT
Well, the original question asked about those MEDICALLY necessary, not necessary because a 15 year old can’t take the consequences of their inaction before the event ….. Its also a question of when life is sentient. So the comparison doesn't work well. If you are in the terminal stages of Dementia or a vegetative state are you any more sentient? |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 9, 2024 7:50:59 GMT
Its also a question of when life is sentient. So the comparison doesn't work well. If you are in the terminal stages of Dementia or a vegetative state are you any more sentient? No, but as I say its putting my wife through it I object to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2024 9:01:57 GMT
If you are in the terminal stages of Dementia or a vegetative state are you any more sentient? No, but as I say its putting my wife through it I object to. Can't she just bung you in a home? |
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Post by Bentley on Jan 9, 2024 10:20:41 GMT
You clearly do not get it The second time i had to be brought back from clinical death was when the stress of my job, and the three project managers who were using us as tools to bounce around hopelessly fir their own personal advancement in a project in a far worse state than Horizon, caused a gastric reflux in my sleep that blocket my airway with what was essentially vomit. Air could neither be inhaled or exhaled I woke at 3am in a hot sweat, realised i could mot breathe, sat bolt upright, realised i could not cry out, flailed around a bit, failed to dislodge the plug and on realising my predicament stopped fighting and waited for the end It came incredibly serenely about ten seconds later The last thought that passed through my conscious mind was ‘YES !! I’ll never have to deal with that bitch at Gatwick again’ Then all went black Sadly Moira Resuscitated me. I think it was when i uttered those last four words to their HR twat my employer put me on suicide watch. But did fuck all about those project managers. I get it all right and so will you if you ever put that gun barrel in your mouth ( or put the noose around your neck , stand by railway lines etc). Depression and pain will help you though , especially depression . What you feel now or what you have felt in the past will not necessarily be relevant. |
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Post by Orac on Jan 9, 2024 11:13:26 GMT
I don't think you can put a legal line between the two - Being pressured to change a will that will allow you to die Being pressured to volunteer to be allowed to die Put to one side 'bored with life' and only consider cases in which you will die without intervention. The trouble with that is removing intervention can mean a very long slow decline to death. Try removing the intervention for someone with motor neuron disease. Sure. However, you are making my 'slippery slope' argument for me. |
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Post by Ripley on Jan 9, 2024 15:59:41 GMT
Maybe, but there is still the question of whether it is right to compel a physician, specialist or whoever to end someone's life. I don't imagine a lot of them would volunteer for that. I don't think you would need a lot and those who trained for it would have the knowledge to deal with it. Many of us love our animal as much as our relatives but we don't imagine our vet struggling to put them down if its needed. I certainly agree that we are more understanding and humane to our pets when they need to be relieved of suffering, but surely the fairer question would be whether a vet is open to human euthanasia ? What's wrong with self-administering the lethal drug instead of burdening someone else with the duty of dispatching you? |
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