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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2022 11:14:09 GMT
I'm not arguing against that. My argument is that you cannot predetermine a persons character by examining their genes. Therefore you cannot say this Tribe will have this personality type. I believe Sandypine is stating that personality is the combination of inherited character traits and how reactions have been moulded through life.
We live under many illiberal and intolerant motions that asserts their cult and fantasy world ideals as fact, and seeks to silence everybody who disagrees with them. That is what is being moulded into the minds of children in schools across the country, and why we have anti-free-speech movements in universities. No-platforming is passed as the norm and people are being conditioned to accept it.
We have to accept the official narrative, whether it's Woke, Covid and what Hitler did etc etc.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2022 15:17:23 GMT
I'm not arguing against that. My argument is that you cannot predetermine a persons character by examining their genes. Therefore you cannot say this Tribe will have this personality type. The Viking reference was that people believed that family helped with an inherited trait. Centuries of breeding cattle, dogs, sheep etc indicated to them that choosing more docile animals was passed on through generations therefore choosing more hostile people would lead to a similar selection process. It is nothing to do with predetermining it is all to do with probabilities. People all over the world expect character to be in all probability similar to that of the parents in some way and in the main it was a reasonable guess. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 4, 2022 15:49:06 GMT
I'm not arguing against that. My argument is that you cannot predetermine a persons character by examining their genes. Therefore you cannot say this Tribe will have this personality type. The Viking reference was that people believed that family helped with an inherited trait. Centuries of breeding cattle, dogs, sheep etc indicated to them that choosing more docile animals was passed on through generations therefore choosing more hostile people would lead to a similar selection process. It is nothing to do with predetermining it is all to do with probabilities. People all over the world expect character to be in all probability similar to that of the parents in some way and in the main it was a reasonable guess. They may have believed it but they were wrong. The Beserkers extreme violence came off the back of the drugs they took. You can breed more docile horses of better fighting dogs, but the results are minute compared to the effects of nurture. If such breeding strategies worked, by now we would have completely placid horses and dogs that never bite. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 4, 2022 15:54:13 GMT
Henbane:
Rather, it’s more likely that the Berserkers were getting high off henbane.
Belonging to a group of plants in the Solanaceae, or nightshade, family, black henbane (Hyoscyamus niger) was an important herb for Viking and Druid rituals and has been connected to witchcraft.
It produces effects that are consistent with what’s been described in Old Norse literature about the Berserkers, according to ethnobotanist Karsten Fatur from the University of New Brunswick. Henbane has been used for medications and are known to cause psychoactive effects, not to mention delirious states, dissociation from reality, or dark and realistic hallucinations, according to Fatur. “I've heard many stories of people who take [black henbane] and wake up days later, not knowing what happened to them,” he says. “People tend to behave in strange ways, aggressively imitating animals.” Other physiological effects include swelling and reddening of the skin, widening of the pupils, teeth chattering, body chills or fever, lowered blood pressure, and pain relief, which could have been what enabled the Berserkers to continue brutally battling in the face of injury
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2022 17:15:18 GMT
The Viking reference was that people believed that family helped with an inherited trait. Centuries of breeding cattle, dogs, sheep etc indicated to them that choosing more docile animals was passed on through generations therefore choosing more hostile people would lead to a similar selection process. It is nothing to do with predetermining it is all to do with probabilities. People all over the world expect character to be in all probability similar to that of the parents in some way and in the main it was a reasonable guess. They may have believed it but they were wrong. The Beserkers extreme violence came off the back of the drugs they took. You can breed more docile horses of better fighting dogs, but the results are minute compared to the effects of nurture. If such breeding strategies worked, by now we would have completely placid horses and dogs that never bite. There does not seem to be written evidence either way of what made the Berserkers what they were. "However, the most probable explanation of 'going berserk' comes from neither history nor archaeology but psychiatry. Psychiatrists believe that Viking men performed spiritual rituals before battles, after which they probably went into some form of self-induced hysteria, which helped them lose control of their consciousness. Self-induced hysteria put the berserkers into the dissociative state of mind, which caused them to act solely based on their subconscious instincts and primal impulses. This state of trance helped the berserkers break free of social constructs and critical thinking and made them act more aggressively and ruthlessly than any other warriors in history." And as I have already shown the mental state of a character is closely associated with the genes they have and what genes they have inherited. We know that Berserkers were selected troops and often selected from family lines. All breeding is a balance, you can breed cattle that are completely docile but then they may not give much milk and will not produce male bulls that are any good. It is all balance. You look at what you want and what you do not want and balance the two. It is true that if food were unlimited and there was an advantage in being bigger then mice would pretty soon grow to the size of elephants within a surprisingly short number of generations. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 4, 2022 17:31:50 GMT
They may have believed it but they were wrong. The Beserkers extreme violence came off the back of the drugs they took. You can breed more docile horses of better fighting dogs, but the results are minute compared to the effects of nurture. If such breeding strategies worked, by now we would have completely placid horses and dogs that never bite. There does not seem to be written evidence either way of what made the Berserkers what they were. "However, the most probable explanation of 'going berserk' comes from neither history nor archaeology but psychiatry. Psychiatrists believe that Viking men performed spiritual rituals before battles, after which they probably went into some form of self-induced hysteria, which helped them lose control of their consciousness. There is some evidence recorded about the Berserkers reddened skin and bloodshot eyes, not something that occurs naturally due to genetics, but does happen as a result of using Henbane and alcohol. Another piece of evidence is the apparent complete disappearance of this genetically brave and violent race. Please continue to believe this if you wish to. I have gone through the evidence with you as much as I desire to. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2022 18:05:57 GMT
There does not seem to be written evidence either way of what made the Berserkers what they were. "However, the most probable explanation of 'going berserk' comes from neither history nor archaeology but psychiatry. Psychiatrists believe that Viking men performed spiritual rituals before battles, after which they probably went into some form of self-induced hysteria, which helped them lose control of their consciousness. There is some evidence recorded about the Berserkers reddened skin and bloodshot eyes, not something that occurs naturally due to genetics, but does happen as a result of using Henbane and alcohol. Another piece of evidence is the apparent complete disappearance of this genetically brave and violent race. Please continue to believe this if you wish to. I have gone through the evidence with you as much as I desire to. The evidence is not written, all I am saying is that chiefs selected family lines as a preference for Berseker troops, you are saying they did not. Neither of us have the written evidence to justify our positions. I accept drugs were used as I have said, you seem unwilling to accept families were considered in any way at all. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 4, 2022 19:56:12 GMT
There is some evidence recorded about the Berserkers reddened skin and bloodshot eyes, not something that occurs naturally due to genetics, but does happen as a result of using Henbane and alcohol. Another piece of evidence is the apparent complete disappearance of this genetically brave and violent race. Please continue to believe this if you wish to. I have gone through the evidence with you as much as I desire to. The evidence is not written, all I am saying is that chiefs selected family lines as a preference for Berseker troops, you are saying they did not. Neither of us have the written evidence to justify our positions. I accept drugs were used as I have said, you seem unwilling to accept families were considered in any way at all. There is some evidence. They are recorded as warriors who worshipped Odin. Old Norse poems speak of their trials and certainty that they would reach Valhalla. They also speak of how the Beserkers would be weak and mild when their fever abated. The Berserkers were a tribe not a genetic group. The Chiefs may well have selected them from families, but they didn't have genetic fingerprinting at the time so they probably did it on size and build. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2022 21:17:41 GMT
The evidence is not written, all I am saying is that chiefs selected family lines as a preference for Berseker troops, you are saying they did not. Neither of us have the written evidence to justify our positions. I accept drugs were used as I have said, you seem unwilling to accept families were considered in any way at all. There is some evidence. They are recorded as warriors who worshipped Odin. Old Norse poems speak of their trials and certainty that they would reach Valhalla. They also speak of how the Beserkers would be weak and mild when their fever abated. The Berserkers were a tribe not a genetic group. The Chiefs may well have selected them from families, but they didn't have genetic fingerprinting at the time so they probably did it on size and build. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2022 21:20:16 GMT
There is some evidence. They are recorded as warriors who worshipped Odin. Old Norse poems speak of their trials and certainty that they would reach Valhalla. They also speak of how the Beserkers would be weak and mild when their fever abated. The Berserkers were a tribe not a genetic group. The Chiefs may well have selected them from families, but they didn't have genetic fingerprinting at the time so they probably did it on size and build. Of course they were warriors, it is how they were selected that is the issue. I think in the past they knew pretty well about inheritance, running in families, apples not falling far from the tree, like father like son, etc etc |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 4, 2022 21:29:27 GMT
Of course they were warriors, it is how they were selected that is the issue. I think in the past they knew pretty well about inheritance, running in families, apples not falling far from the tree, like father like son, etc etc Try looking at a history of our kings Alfred the great Ethelred the unready. Like father like son. Lol. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2022 21:34:12 GMT
Of course they were warriors, it is how they were selected that is the issue. I think in the past they knew pretty well about inheritance, running in families, apples not falling far from the tree, like father like son, etc etc Try looking at a history of our kings Alfred the great Ethelred the unready. Like father like son. Lol. More often true than not. Just because some turn out more like their mothers does not negate the old adage. It is largely why primogeniture is the chosen method. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 4, 2022 21:38:55 GMT
Try looking at a history of our kings Alfred the great Ethelred the unready. Like father like son. Lol. More often true than not. Just because some turn out more like their mothers does not negate the old adage. It is largely why primogeniture is the chosen method. Nope. Children are rarely like their parents in stature or nature. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2022 22:06:59 GMT
More often true than not. Just because some turn out more like their mothers does not negate the old adage. It is largely why primogeniture is the chosen method. Nope. Children are rarely like their parents in stature or nature. Well that flies in the face of just about every theory of evolution and inheritance I have heard or even witnessed growing up. Babies tend to look like their fathers at a very early age to remove doubt I suppose. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 4, 2022 22:08:26 GMT
More often true than not. Just because some turn out more like their mothers does not negate the old adage. It is largely why primogeniture is the chosen method. Nope. Children are rarely like their parents in stature or nature. Really? - anything to support this claim? Pretty much all of my family have come out like their parents - in fact if you look at photographs of the parent and child at the same age the likeness is striking. |
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