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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 20:30:20 GMT
You entirely misunderstand me. Where did I suggest that I am opposed to English nationalism or that English nationalism is racist? How am I part of the problem? I am merely seeking to understand what it is you want English nationalism to do. The Welsh and the Scots have no power over a host of issues that are reserved to Westminster, hence their nationalism, but what do you think the English want that they can't accomplish now just by voting for it? I do not misunderstand you at all. Your attitude is typical of someone who looks down on, questions, criticises, sneers at the very thought of English nationalism, but thinks Welsh and Scottish nationalism are perfectly acceptable. And I have to say, in your defence to a degree, this is how the 'establishment' want us to think, that English nationalism is racist and the English flag is a symbol of hate.
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Post by Ripley on Jan 4, 2024 20:43:45 GMT
You entirely misunderstand me. Where did I suggest that I am opposed to English nationalism or that English nationalism is racist? How am I part of the problem? I am merely seeking to understand what it is you want English nationalism to do. The Welsh and the Scots have no power over a host of issues that are reserved to Westminster, hence their nationalism, but what do you think the English want that they can't accomplish now just by voting for it? I do not misunderstand you at all. Your attitude is typical of someone who looks down on, questions, criticises, sneers at the very thought of English nationalism, but thinks Welsh and Scottish nationalism are perfectly acceptable. And I have to say, in your defence to a degree, this is how the 'establishment' want us to think, that English nationalism is racist and the English flag is a symbol of hate. Relax, Red. I am not being critical in the least, nor am I sneering. I am merely curious about what it is you want English nationalism to do for you. The Welsh and the Scots want independence. What do you want for the English that can't be accomplished already? And what form do you see English nationalism taking, if not independence from the rest of the Union?
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 20:48:48 GMT
I do not misunderstand you at all. Your attitude is typical of someone who looks down on, questions, criticises, sneers at the very thought of English nationalism, but thinks Welsh and Scottish nationalism are perfectly acceptable. And I have to say, in your defence to a degree, this is how the 'establishment' want us to think, that English nationalism is racist and the English flag is a symbol of hate. Relax, Red. I am not being critical in the least, nor am I sneering. I am merely curious about what it is you want English nationalism to do for you. The Welsh and the Scots want independence. What do you want for the English that can't be accomplished already? And what form do you see English nationalism taking, if not independence from the rest of the Union? I want the establishment to regard English nationalism with the same respect, ambivalence, or indeed contempt, as they do Welsh and Scottish nationalism.
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Post by Ripley on Jan 4, 2024 21:06:25 GMT
Relax, Red. I am not being critical in the least, nor am I sneering. I am merely curious about what it is you want English nationalism to do for you. The Welsh and the Scots want independence. What do you want for the English that can't be accomplished already? And what form do you see English nationalism taking, if not independence from the rest of the Union? I want the establishment to regard English nationalism with the same respect, ambivalence, or indeed contempt, as they do Welsh and Scottish nationalism. By establishment, I assume you mean the social elites who control power, ie the Tory government. While some of the Welsh and the Scots quite rightly feel that their nationalism is regarded with contempt and ambivalence, it is not regarded with any respect from Westminster. Unless you can be very specific about what you want do to that you don't think you can accomplish now, they would think that for you to want to be regarded in the same way as they are is tantamount to asking for less respect, not more. I am curious about what form you see English nationalism taking. Unless you want independence from the Union, what will English Nationalism look like? How will you know when you've got what you want? How, precisely, do you feel English Nationalism is being disrespected by the government?
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 4, 2024 21:06:41 GMT
Welsh language champion Arfon Jones from Old Conwy began the petition and said: "Wales is a name imposed on Cymru and is essentially not a Welsh word at all... Hang on a minute... If Wales ain't Wales then there's no such thing as "Welsh". Welsh language champion, my hairy arse.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 21:27:10 GMT
I want the establishment to regard English nationalism with the same respect, ambivalence, or indeed contempt, as they do Welsh and Scottish nationalism. By establishment, I assume you mean the social elites who control power, ie the Tory government. While some of the Welsh and the Scots quite rightly feel that their nationalism is regarded with contempt and ambivalence, it is not regarded with any respect from Westminster. Unless you can be very specific about what you want do to that you don't think you can accomplish now, they would think that for you to want to be regarded in the same way as they are is tantamount to asking for less respect, not more. I am curious about what form you see English nationalism taking. Unless you want independence from the Union, what will English Nationalism look like? How will you know when you've got what you want? How, precisely, do you feel English Nationalism is being disrespected by the government? By 'establishment' I don't necessarily mean the government, I refer to social and political elites, particularly those on the left who seem to take great pleasure in showing their contempt to anything associated with Englishness whether it be nationalism, the flag or an English national anthem. I don't particularly want English nationalism to achieve anything, I just don't want it sneered at by people like Lady Nugee. Why should I as an Englishman not be as openly proud of my flag as a Welshman or a Scotsman, and why cant the English have a national anthem as the Welsh and Scotts have. Why do the aforementioned establishment insist we should constantly thrash ourselves for being English.
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Post by Ripley on Jan 4, 2024 21:47:13 GMT
By establishment, I assume you mean the social elites who control power, ie the Tory government. While some of the Welsh and the Scots quite rightly feel that their nationalism is regarded with contempt and ambivalence, it is not regarded with any respect from Westminster. Unless you can be very specific about what you want do to that you don't think you can accomplish now, they would think that for you to want to be regarded in the same way as they are is tantamount to asking for less respect, not more. I am curious about what form you see English nationalism taking. Unless you want independence from the Union, what will English Nationalism look like? How will you know when you've got what you want? How, precisely, do you feel English Nationalism is being disrespected by the government? By 'establishment' I don't necessarily mean the government, I refer to social and political elites, particularly those on the left who seem to take great pleasure in showing their contempt to anything associated with Englishness whether it be nationalism, the flag or an English national anthem. I don't particularly want English nationalism to achieve anything, I just don't want it sneered at by people like Lady Nugee. Why should I as an Englishman not be as openly proud of my flag as a Welshman or a Scotsman, and why cant the English have a national anthem as the Welsh and Scotts have. Why do the aforementioned establishment insist we should constantly thrash ourselves for being English. Why do you care about the opinion of Emily Thornberry? Of course you can be proud of your flag. Who is going to stop you? Why do you care about what anyone thinks about your sentiments?
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 22:00:31 GMT
By 'establishment' I don't necessarily mean the government, I refer to social and political elites, particularly those on the left who seem to take great pleasure in showing their contempt to anything associated with Englishness whether it be nationalism, the flag or an English national anthem. I don't particularly want English nationalism to achieve anything, I just don't want it sneered at by people like Lady Nugee. Why should I as an Englishman not be as openly proud of my flag as a Welshman or a Scotsman, and why cant the English have a national anthem as the Welsh and Scotts have. Why do the aforementioned establishment insist we should constantly thrash ourselves for being English. Why do you care about the opinion of Emily Thornberry? Of course you can be proud of your flag. Who is going to stop you? Why do you care about what anyone thinks about your sentiments? Why cant the English have a national anthem, just as the Welsh and Scots have. Could it be because the political and social elites consider an English anthem would be far too nationalistic. Another example of how we are encouraged to ignore 'Englishness' is April 23rd, St Georges day. We are encouraged not to make a fuss about it, to believe it's nothing to shout about. You are far more likely to see St Andrews day or St David's day mentioned on the BBC than St Georges day. It's just something else that's English that we're not supposed to bother about. Perish the thought some woke thin skinned lefty insist minorities will be offended by Englishness.
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Post by Ripley on Jan 4, 2024 22:20:23 GMT
Why do you care about the opinion of Emily Thornberry? Of course you can be proud of your flag. Who is going to stop you? Why do you care about what anyone thinks about your sentiments? Why cant the English have a national anthem, just as the Welsh and Scots have. Could it be because the political and social elites consider an English anthem would be far too nationalistic. Another example of how we are encouraged to ignore 'Englishness' is April 23rd, St Georges day. We are encouraged not to make a fuss about it, to believe it's nothing to shout about. You are far more likely to see St Andrews day or St David's day mentioned on the BBC than St Georges day. It's just something else that's English that we're not supposed to bother about. Perish the thought some woke thin skinned lefty insist minorities will be offended by Englishness. I have no objection to an English national anthem. If you want one, why don't you and some like-minded friends find out who gets to decide about these things and start a petition to challenge the status quo? In fact, why don't people challenge the status quo more often? You'll be glad to know you're not alone in disliking the BBC's coverage of a lot of things. No-one can actually prevent you from making a fuss of St. George's day if you want to. BTW, I just read that Labour's manifestos for the 2017 and 2019 general elections included a pledge to introduce four new UK bank holidays to mark the patron saints of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Not a solution you'd have wanted, I know.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 22:28:01 GMT
Why cant the English have a national anthem, just as the Welsh and Scots have. Could it be because the political and social elites consider an English anthem would be far too nationalistic. Another example of how we are encouraged to ignore 'Englishness' is April 23rd, St Georges day. We are encouraged not to make a fuss about it, to believe it's nothing to shout about. You are far more likely to see St Andrews day or St David's day mentioned on the BBC than St Georges day. It's just something else that's English that we're not supposed to bother about. Perish the thought some woke thin skinned lefty insist minorities will be offended by Englishness. I have no objection to an English national anthem. If you want one, why don't you and some like-minded friends find out who gets to decide about these things and start a petition to challenge the status quo? In fact, why don't people challenge the status quo more often? You'll be glad to know you're not alone in disliking the BBC's coverage of a lot of things. No-one can actually prevent you from making a fuss of St. George's day if you want to. BTW, I just read that Labour's manifestos for the 2017 and 2019 general elections included a pledge to introduce four new UK bank holidays to mark the patron saints of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Not a solution you'd have wanted, I know. The government have debated the merits of an English anthem at length, people who think the English should not have their own anthem always seem to get their way.
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Post by Ripley on Jan 4, 2024 22:30:41 GMT
I have no objection to an English national anthem. If you want one, why don't you and some like-minded friends find out who gets to decide about these things and start a petition to challenge the status quo? In fact, why don't people challenge the status quo more often? You'll be glad to know you're not alone in disliking the BBC's coverage of a lot of things. No-one can actually prevent you from making a fuss of St. George's day if you want to. BTW, I just read that Labour's manifestos for the 2017 and 2019 general elections included a pledge to introduce four new UK bank holidays to mark the patron saints of England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. Not a solution you'd have wanted, I know. The government have debated the merits of an English anthem at length, people who think the English should not have their own anthem always seem to get their way. That just means the people on your side of the argument aren't making enough of a song and dance about it. If you bang on the door long enough, it will eventually open.
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Post by thomas on Jan 5, 2024 8:22:45 GMT
It's not that 'England' is racist. It's that it is bloody foreign. Albion is based on the Celtic Alba. None of that filthy Angle language. The name for Scotland in most of the Celtic languages is related to Albion: Alba in Scottish Gaelic, Albain (genitive Alban) in Irish, Nalbin in Manx and Alban in Welsh and Cornish. Alba was the kingdom formed by the union of the Picts and Scots under Kenneth I MacAlpin in 843. Their territory, ranging from modern Argyll and Bute to Caithness, across much of southern and central Scotland, was one of the few areas in the British Isles to withstand the invasions of the Vikings. The ancient link with Ireland (from which the Celtic Scots had emigrated) was broken as a cordon of Scandinavian settlements were established in the Western Isles and Ireland. With southern England also conquered by the Norsemen and Danes, Alba was left isolated. With the withdrawal of the Norsemen, England, under the English, then launched invasions against Alba but were ultimately repelled by Malcolm II at the Battle of Carham (1016/18). When Malcolm’s grandson and successor Duncan I came to the throne in 1034, he united Alba with Strathclyde, Cumbria, and Lothian. Later, the name Alba began to fade away... www.britannica.com/place/Alba-historical-kingdom-ScotlandI know monte is probably saying this tongue in cheek , but we have had this discussion before , and he doesn't seem to get for some reason England isn't a Celtic nation. The English have never called England Alba , and for most of history , they haven't referred to their country as Britain and British either. Alba , pronounced `Al-a-Pa` has meant many things over the centuries as the language changed . Originally , as far as scholastic research can penetrate , it meant the whole island of Britain , which the Goidelic Celts named it . This is where the latin term Albion later came from. As new waves of Celtic speakers came here from Europe , that then changed to Prydain , which the romans went on to bastardise as Britain . As the territory of the Goidelic Celts was pushed back north and west , eventually the dal riadans on the west coast of Scotland were referred to as the gaels of alba. By the ninth century , Alba was Scotland north of the rivers forth and Clyde , and by the 11th century , it was modern Scotland and parts of northern cumbria and northumbria , at times as far south as the rivers ribble in Lancashire and the tees in northumbria , before the modern border was settled by treaty in the 13th century. After the language change in Scotland from Gaelic , to English , post the 15th/16th century , Alba changed to Scotland. Today Scottish gaels still refer to our country as Alba , and the Scots as albannach. At no point in human history has the country known as England ever been called Alba , and the term perfidious Albion if I recall was coined by the French to refer to the duplicity of the British elite .
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Post by thomas on Jan 5, 2024 8:31:12 GMT
The government have debated the merits of an English anthem at length, people who think the English should not have their own anthem always seem to get their way. That just means the people on your side of the argument aren't making enough of a song and dance about it. If you bang on the door long enough, it will eventually open. The English are always whinging on national identity and flags and anthems , but despite having complete power at their disposal , they never want to do anything about englishness. That's because it's their own very political elite in London who know if English national identity resurfaces , the sham that is Britain , comes to an end. Red Rackham has proudly on this and the old forum announced his britishness many a time for all to see. Now he moans about his englishness. It's the same old story. In their minds eye , when Britain conflates with a greater England , the two identities are all fine and dandy and interchangeable. When the other Celtic nations reassert our national identities , and throw off the anglo imposed British identity ,they become much less sure of themselves and britishness collapses. Im probably the biggest supporter of English nationalism on this forum. The ones who do the biggest whinging about englishness , are the ones who secretly don't really want to do anything about it as they know britishness and the empire mentality collapses without the remnant of Englands colonial possessions remaining under London rule. Top to bottom , these imperial delusions of greatness long gone are destroying their country , England just doesn't want to be a normal European country like the rest of us.
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Post by thomas on Jan 5, 2024 8:40:34 GMT
Relax, Red. I am not being critical in the least, nor am I sneering. I am merely curious about what it is you want English nationalism to do for you. The Welsh and the Scots want independence. What do you want for the English that can't be accomplished already? And what form do you see English nationalism taking, if not independence from the rest of the Union? I want the establishment to regard English nationalism with the same respect, ambivalence, or indeed contempt, as they do Welsh and Scottish nationalism. so why do you consistently vote for one nation tories? The tories are a British unionist party , and their one nation is Britain. If you support englishness , as you should , then why aren't you out voting for an English national party , that wants to end the imperial relic that is Britain , give the English people their own English parliament , support an English national anthem instead of that fucking dirge that is GSTK , and in short look out for the interests and well being of the English people? I think its because many of you want it both ways. The idea the British establishment treats Scottish Irish or welsh nationalism with respect is laughable. You served in northern ireland , where your brit elite sent you in to put the boot into paddies Irish nationalism with all the might of the British armed forces and you can sit and say this with a straight face? Come on red .You need to wake up mate , and get real. The uk is coming to an end. We can help each other , or we can carry on deluding each other by kidding on Britain is going to last and fighting like rats in a sack. The British elite in London , and that includes your tory party , have done more damage to the English nation and nationality than the Scots Irish welsh or any Johnny Foreigner ever has in history.
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Post by thomas on Jan 5, 2024 8:53:11 GMT
It's not that 'England' is racist. It's that it is bloody foreign. Albion is based on the Celtic Alba. None of that filthy Angle language. Ah, Albion has Greek origins and Alba comes from Albion rather than the other way around. thomas is the expert at this sort of thing. No Albion is latin , and the origins are Celtic , and indo European. Alba , Albania , the alps mountains and much more have similar root meanings , coined possibly originally by the Celts or earlier indo European speakers. The English are neither latin , or Celtic.
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