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Post by patman post on Jan 7, 2024 17:24:39 GMT
Bankruptcies, suicide attempts and jail sentences: the real stories of the victims of the Post Office Horizon scandal...
Bloody sad. It's good that this scandal is finally out in the open, but I doubt any of them will ever receive appropriate compensation. It's the scale of the injustice to innocent individuals that's so appalling to me — not the actual refusal of the organisations concerned to admit even the possibility of mistakes or provide all relevant evidence when required.
After dealing with several organisations that are or have been owned, bailed out, supported, or formed by the state, I've been aware of an underlying arrogance and self-belief that they and their personnel are exempt from following normal rules.
In this case, The Post Office is state-owned, and Fujitsu which took over ICL — originally formed with government money, help and coercion from a disparate collection of IT activities over the years. Employees of such companies often appear to believe they're part state and part security personnel. Although now carrying the Fujitsu brand, there'd be no surprise if the original "superior" attitudes remain...
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 7, 2024 18:29:04 GMT
Bloody sad. It's good that this scandal is finally out in the open, but I doubt any of them will ever receive appropriate compensation. It's the scale of the injustice to innocent individuals that's so appalling to me — not the actual refusal of the organisations concerned to admit even the possibility of mistakes or provide all relevant evidence when required.
After dealing with several organisations that are or have been owned, bailed out, supported, or formed by the state, I've been aware of an underlying arrogance and self-belief that they and their personnel are exempt from following normal rules.
In this case, The Post Office is state-owned, and Fujitsu which took over ICL — originally formed with government money, help and coercion from a disparate collection of IT activities over the years. Employees of such companies often appear to believe they're part state and part security personnel. Although now carrying the Fujitsu brand, there'd be no surprise if the original "superior" attitudes remain...
I imagine ICL also failed due to these superior attitudes. |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 7, 2024 18:43:30 GMT
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 7, 2024 18:46:45 GMT
Kelvin Mackenzie speaking some sense..  |
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Post by Fairsociety on Jan 7, 2024 18:47:51 GMT
This man is abomination on our society ........ when is he going to be dealt with, if Labour win the GE it's more than horrifying to think that Starmer worships this tyrant, and this tyrant Blair will be instrumental in forming the next Labour government. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2024 19:58:59 GMT
It is notable to me that this appears to be an issue that unites both left, right, and centre in anger and outrage and disgust, because we all appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet on this one. If we all represent the wider public in this, the politicians are on a hiding to nothing if they don't act decisively. This should include the rapid removal of Vennel's CBE, criminal prosecutions wherever appropriate, removal of the Post Office ability to conduct independent prosecutions without first running it by the CPS, an immediate pardon for all subpostmasters convicted of dishonesty since the Horizon system was installed, and rapid compensation for all of them. And Fujitsu should be made to pay part of the costs of this compensation as well as the post office.
Like many I knew about this scandal already, but the hard hitting docudrama brought home to me the emotional impact and fired up my emotions as it appears to have done with much of the public. I made a point of watching the documentary featuring the real victims which confirmed many of the disgraceful facts.
Most of the politicians were aware of what had gone on. Blair, Ed Davey, etc. The Tories even gave Vennels the CBE long after the truth was becoming apparent. Only a precious few fought the corner of the postmasters, including to his credit a Tory MP whose name escapes me.
Most simply didnt give a stuff and only care now because we are angry. Their fear of our anger is what concerns them. Right or wrong clearly didnt bother them until now.
Call me a cynic, but the only chance there is of these scumbags in parliament doing right by the postmasters is us remaining angry and united. Because they are hoping our anger will subside and we will forget all about it, so that after a few lip service words, they can revert to doing nothing after all.
And Vennels will keep her honour for services rendered.
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Post by jonksy on Jan 9, 2024 2:44:05 GMT
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 9, 2024 7:47:15 GMT
The thing that surprises me is that the private prosecutions that the PO brought against the sub-postmasters didn't include expert witnesses to advise on the technical computer issues. Given the design of the system it's obvious that manual correction of transactions that failed due to comms errors was required. If someone who actually knew about this type of system had been allowed to question Fujitsu it would have become obvious very quickly that Fujitsu were amending the data held at the Fujitsu hubs - and the minute that fact is established the PO would have had to prove that it was the sub-postmaster who was fiddling that data rather than Fujitsu trying to correct it. A lawyer obviously would know nothing about the system works.
The same thing seems to be happening with the Covid Enquiry. It seems to be the same sort of adversarial trial between KCs and (largely) politicians, none of whom know anything about epidemiology. I don't see how this can shed any light whatsoever on what mistakes were made - if any.
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Post by jonksy on Jan 9, 2024 11:01:23 GMT
In other words just another typical modern British politician, ie a self serving bastard. Such types seem to be in charge of all the main parties. In the biased view of an angry hard lefty who can't have his own political way. Very immature. |
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ginnyg2
Full Member
Don't blame me - I voted for someone else.
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Post by ginnyg2 on Jan 9, 2024 13:34:38 GMT
It is notable to me that this appears to be an issue that unites both left, right, and centre in anger and outrage and disgust, because we all appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet on this one. If we all represent the wider public in this, the politicians are on a hiding to nothing if they don't act decisively. This should include the rapid removal of Vennel's CBE, criminal prosecutions wherever appropriate, removal of the Post Office ability to conduct independent prosecutions without first running it by the CPS, an immediate pardon for all subpostmasters convicted of dishonesty since the Horizon system was installed, and rapid compensation for all of them. And Fujitsu should be made to pay part of the costs of this compensation as well as the post office. Like many I knew about this scandal already, but the hard hitting docudrama brought home to me the emotional impact and fired up my emotions as it appears to have done with much of the public. I made a point of watching the documentary featuring the real victims which confirmed many of the disgraceful facts. Most of the politicians were aware of what had gone on. Blair, Ed Davey, etc. The Tories even gave Vennels the CBE long after the truth was becoming apparent. Only a precious few fought the corner of the postmasters, including to his credit a Tory MP whose name escapes me. Most simply didnt give a stuff and only care now because we are angry. Their fear of our anger is what concerns them. Right or wrong clearly didnt bother them until now. Call me a cynic, but the only chance there is of these scumbags in parliament doing right by the postmasters is us remaining angry and united. Because they are hoping our anger will subside and we will forget all about it, so that after a few lip service words, they can revert to doing nothing after all. And Vennels will keep her honour for services rendered. She's going to give it back. Together with her £400,000 golden handshake. Er - well not the last bit. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 9, 2024 14:28:02 GMT
It is notable to me that this appears to be an issue that unites both left, right, and centre in anger and outrage and disgust, because we all appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet on this one. If we all represent the wider public in this, the politicians are on a hiding to nothing if they don't act decisively. This should include the rapid removal of Vennel's CBE, criminal prosecutions wherever appropriate, removal of the Post Office ability to conduct independent prosecutions without first running it by the CPS, an immediate pardon for all subpostmasters convicted of dishonesty since the Horizon system was installed, and rapid compensation for all of them. And Fujitsu should be made to pay part of the costs of this compensation as well as the post office. Like many I knew about this scandal already, but the hard hitting docudrama brought home to me the emotional impact and fired up my emotions as it appears to have done with much of the public. I made a point of watching the documentary featuring the real victims which confirmed many of the disgraceful facts. Most of the politicians were aware of what had gone on. Blair, Ed Davey, etc. The Tories even gave Vennels the CBE long after the truth was becoming apparent. Only a precious few fought the corner of the postmasters, including to his credit a Tory MP whose name escapes me. Most simply didnt give a stuff and only care now because we are angry. Their fear of our anger is what concerns them. Right or wrong clearly didnt bother them until now. Call me a cynic, but the only chance there is of these scumbags in parliament doing right by the postmasters is us remaining angry and united. Because they are hoping our anger will subside and we will forget all about it, so that after a few lip service words, they can revert to doing nothing after all. And Vennels will keep her honour for services rendered. She's going to give it back. Together with her £400,000 golden handshake. Er - well not the last bit. Ex-Post Office boss Paula Vennells says she WILL hand back her CBE over Horizon scandal after one million signed petition demanding she return honour in wake of hit ITV drama Mr Bates vs The Post Office
EDIT.........It took a million signatures for her to come to this decision, really? She should have handed it back without a petition against her.
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Post by patman post on Jan 9, 2024 15:24:55 GMT
She's going to give it back. Together with her £400,000 golden handshake. Er - well not the last bit. Ex-Post Office boss Paula Vennells says she WILL hand back her CBE over Horizon scandal after one million signed petition demanding she return honour in wake of hit ITV drama Mr Bates vs The Post Office
EDIT.........It took a million signatures for her to come to this decision, really? She should have handed it back without a petition against her.
Why was she awarded the CBE at all, in the 2018 New Year's honours? The Post Office was already aware of accusations of Horizon's (and its own management's) "shortcomings"...
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Post by patman post on Jan 9, 2024 18:26:13 GMT
With all the anger being directed against organisations and individuals, I hope the primary effort is directed at somehow quickly recompensing the wrongly-accused and wrongly-punished. This whole saga has been going on for a quarter of a century with calls for help being inadequately dealt with, dismissed, or ignored.
Victims have died, victims lives have been ruined and families and communities split.
I can understand the government not wanting to interfere in court and judicial procedures but, just as Rishi Sunak got money to those unable to work during the pandemic, is there no way that substantial payments can be immediately made to victims and their surviving families with top-ups being paid as individual cases progress through the courts?
Any criminal proceedings can progress at their normal speeds — and the judiciary should be aware of and counter delaying tactics — but criminal wrongdoing should be investigated and punished appropriately…
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Post by sheepy on Jan 9, 2024 18:42:57 GMT
She was still put up for her award and knowing what she knew still took it, that is fairly beyond redemption.
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Post by ratcliff on Jan 9, 2024 19:37:11 GMT
With all the anger being directed against organisations and individuals, I hope the primary effort is directed at somehow quickly recompensing the wrongly-accused and wrongly-punished. This whole saga has been going on for a quarter of a century with calls for help being inadequately dealt with, dismissed, or ignored. Victims have died, victims lives have been ruined and families and communities split. I can understand the government not wanting to interfere in court and judicial procedures but, just as Rishi Sunak got money to those unable to work during the pandemic, is there no way that substantial payments can be immediately made to victims and their surviving families with top-ups being paid as individual cases progress through the courts? Any criminal proceedings can progress at their normal speeds — and the judiciary should be aware of and counter delaying tactics — but criminal wrongdoing should be investigated and punished appropriately… Postmasters/mistresses wrongly prosecuted years ago need clearing immediately - not at ''normal speed'' - convictions reversed These convictions must be making their lives very difficult and complicated Apply for a job - conviction for money offences revealed , application rejected become a volunteer - need a DBS - offence surfaces - application rejected or tight restrictions applied Take out insurance - you have a conviction - insurance refused or very heavily loaded Want to visit New york/Disney - no on line ESTA - you'll need a visa after travelling to a personal interview at the Embassy etc etc etc |
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