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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 1, 2024 12:04:35 GMT
You still haven't provided a source which shows Tolkien said what you claim he said prior to WWII and the subsequent revelation of Nazi atrocities in Europe.
For one thing, such things were still in the future when he wrote to a Berlin publisher in 1938. And second, your earlier reference to the Foreword of a revised edition of LOTR doesn't count either. They weren't published until the mid-1950s.
The first golden rule for any would-be historian is: Respect the Timeline.
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Post by wapentake on Jan 1, 2024 12:15:45 GMT
You still haven't provided a source which shows Tolkien said what you claim he said prior to WWII and the subsequent revelation of Nazi atrocities in Europe. For one thing, such things were still in the future when he wrote to a Berlin publisher in 1938. And second, your earlier reference to the Foreword of a revised edition of LOTR doesn't count either. They weren't published until the mid-1950s. The first golden rule for any would-be historian is: Respect the Timeline. but no doubt you’ll invent another excuse or demand,do you actually remember your comment about his thoughts pre WW2? Respect history? Really? you want to distort it to suit your narrative. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 1, 2024 12:45:44 GMT
Do we have your approval to return to the main topic or are you determined to continue your diversionary tactics in the obsessive pursuit of minutiae?
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Post by wapentake on Jan 1, 2024 12:55:27 GMT
Do we have your approval to return to the main topic or are you determined to continue your diversionary tactics in the obsessive pursuit of minutiae? Talk about whatever you wish but remember it was you who diverted the topic then denied it and I only responded to what you posted,because you cannot cope with the result of that and you asking for a link to a letter which doesn’t support your assertions you now wish to redivert it yourself  Happy new year. |
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Post by wapentake on Jan 1, 2024 14:23:49 GMT
I’m not claiming anything other than what he wrote which is there to be seen by anyone that cares to look and in his own words makes it clear he’s not complying with the Nazi demands. You did claim that it was one of many sources. Also, you do understand that Fascism and Nazism aren't the same thing, just as Fascism and Racialism isn't the same thing, right?
On reflection B-4 if I was a little short in my reply apologies,of course I do understand that fascism and Nazism have differences. I was replying to a point made was then curtly asked for another and then told I was taking this away from the op when I was in fact replying to a post made by the topic starter. Anyway imo lotr is a fantasy a work of fiction of elves goblins wizards and dragons etc.The fact someone tries to interpret it as some vindication of BNP policies is laughable. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 3, 2024 2:26:01 GMT
Who are these ‘ far right’ who tend to view The Lord of the Rings through the lens of race? I suspect they only exist in the minds of leftie students and their teachers . i don’t know but i’m betting the only bit of Tolkien the left who accuse Tolkien fans of being right wing gave ever seen is this bit …. Aragorn’s speech to the Men Of The West at the Black Gate m.youtube.com/watch?v=QdtmlfLFgWg |
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 3, 2024 2:37:27 GMT
I've never read Tolkien, I don't particularly like fantasy type stuff. I do however like Yes Minister/Prime Minister very much. Now this has got me thinking. Mrs R likes Tolkien but dislikes Yes Minister. I Dislike Tolkien but like Yes Minister. So I guess we're both fascists? Btw, Yes Minister has been on freeview 56 for a while now.  |
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Post by bancroft on Jan 3, 2024 15:31:45 GMT
The current Left is largely a sham, it has been stealthily taken over by an alliance of ultra-progressives and globalists so they can sell more widgets and try to be representative of all races and cultures yet to do this they try and destroy any work that strengthens particular cultures as strong cultures can be resistant to globalism.
The only charge against Tolkien really is that the good guys tend to come from recognised European types yet it was a historical fantasy written in the 1950s..........
Not sure why Aldous Huxley's Brave New World is in the frame, I recall eugenics and the big brother hyperbole.
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 3, 2024 15:40:43 GMT
I think I can understand why Huxley might be in the frame as the creator of a 'key text'. It was he who came out with the idea that a really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude.
Not so unlike our present ultra-materialistic consumer society in fact. Leftists would not wish for such a subversive notion to gain much traction hence their eagerness to finger Huxley as a facilitator of extremist right-wing ideology.
A minor correction re LOTR. It was largely written in the 30s and 40s, but not actually published until the 50s.
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Post by vlk on Jan 3, 2024 16:42:24 GMT
Imagine being someone who spends time with these people who are offended by some fairytales or TV-shows! I don't envy them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2024 18:13:52 GMT
The current Left is largely a sham, it has been stealthily taken over by an alliance of ultra-progressives and globalists so they can sell more widgets and try to be representative of all races and cultures yet to do this they try and destroy any work that strengthens particular cultures as strong cultures can be resistant to globalism.The only charge against Tolkien really is that the good guys tend to come from recognised European types yet it was a historical fantasy written in the 1950s.......... Not sure why Aldous Huxley's Brave New World is in the frame, I recall eugenics and the big brother hyperbole. I believe they call it the Third Way. |
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 4, 2024 1:20:56 GMT
It would be helpful to see the actual source. Your own 'source' is behind a paywall. So, what are the compilers of the list actually saying? They appear to be saying no more than certain texts have been appropriated by the far-right. Big deal. That happens. It was the same with Joy Division. Ian Curtis, an epileptic of Irish descent, was the least likely Nazi in music history. That didn't stop the loony far-right projecting their wet dreams onto him and the rest of the band, though. They're your favourite band, aren't they? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 4, 2024 7:25:07 GMT
If what you claim is correct, then Joy Division could hardly be viewed as innocent bystanders. Here the cover of their first, self-released EP 'An Ideal for Living'. Can't even blame Anthony Wilson for this one.
Incidentally, Discogs has a copy on sale for €7.999,99 (£6,900) if you're really interested in expanding your collection of far-right 'Nazi' memorabilia.
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Post by Einhorn on Jan 4, 2024 9:43:04 GMT
If what you claim is correct, then Joy Division could hardly be viewed as innocent bystanders. Here the cover of their first, self-released EP 'An Ideal for Living'. Can't even blame Anthony Wilson for this one.
Incidentally, Discogs has a copy on sale for €7.999,99 (£6,900) if you're really interested in expanding your collection of far-right 'Nazi' memorabilia.
Yes, your terminally thick 'Aryan' can be forgiven for his error. But only if he's deaf. This is what Curtis had to say about the character on the front of that EP: All dressed in uniforms so fine
They drank and killed to pass the time Wearing the shame of all their crimes
With measured steps, they walked in line (They Walked in Line - Joy Division) |
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Post by Dan Dare on Jan 4, 2024 9:55:20 GMT
The inside cover was if anything even more iffy, featuring a well-known image from the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising.  Surely you won't be able to resist adding a prime exhibit like this to your collection. Just imagine the admiring murmurs when you show it off at your next Antifa Brigade meeting! Yours for only €8K! PS my own copy is also for sale but only as part of my 500-odd piece Factory Records collection. PM if interested. |
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