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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 31, 2023 11:15:25 GMT
The existence of a government-compiled list of ‘key texts’ that is, ‘mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences’ was revealed in the media several months ago.
That list was reported to include the works of authors such as C.S. Lewis, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley and Joseph Conrad as well as television programmes including the Kenneth Clark TV series Civilisation, The Thick of It, Yes Minister and Great British Railway Journeys.
Now comes news that Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings trilogy has been added to the list of ‘key texts’ for incipient white supremacists. According to a report in the Sunday Times:
“…The far right tends to view The Lord of the Rings through the lens of race, in which elves — described in the books as tall and “fair of skin” — are pitted against lesser peoples like the orcs, who are portrayed as black-skinned with features including “wide mouths” and “slant eyes”. They identify with the heroism of a ragtag group of outsiders — not unlike today’s alt-right — standing up to a tyrannical power hellbent on obliterating their traditional way of life...
The neo-Nazi organisation Patriotic Alternative has devoted part of its website to the discussion of Tolkien’s work. On its blog one member discusses how the Shire, the idyllic rural homeland of the hobbits, can be seen as an allegory of white British nationalism untouched by “cosmopolitan delights” — what the member describes as “Afro-Caribbean knife crime” and terrorism.
One of the UK’s best-known fascist bloggers uses the pseudonym Morgoth, the name given to Sauron’s villainous predecessor. On his YouTube and Substack channel, Morgoth’s Review, the blogger touches on themes including anti-environmentalism and “Covid-19 fearmongering”.
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Post by thomas on Dec 31, 2023 11:25:44 GMT
The existence of a government-compiled list of ‘key texts’ that is, ‘mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences’ was revealed in the media several months ago.
That list was reported to include the works of authors such as C.S. Lewis, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley and Joseph Conrad as well as television programmes including the Kenneth Clark TV series Civilisation, The Thick of It, Yes Minister and Great British Railway Journeys.
Now comes news that Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings trilogy has been added to the list of ‘key texts’ for incipient white supremacists. According to a report in the Sunday Times:
“…The far right tends to view The Lord of the Rings through the lens of race, in which elves — described in the books as tall and “fair of skin” — are pitted against lesser peoples like the orcs, who are portrayed as black-skinned with features including “wide mouths” and “slant eyes”. They identify with the heroism of a ragtag group of outsiders — not unlike today’s alt-right — standing up to a tyrannical power hellbent on obliterating their traditional way of life...
The neo-Nazi organisation Patriotic Alternative has devoted part of its website to the discussion of Tolkien’s work. On its blog one member discusses how the Shire, the idyllic rural homeland of the hobbits, can be seen as an allegory of white British nationalism untouched by “cosmopolitan delights” — what the member describes as “Afro-Caribbean knife crime” and terrorism.
One of the UK’s best-known fascist bloggers uses the pseudonym Morgoth, the name given to Sauron’s villainous predecessor. On his YouTube and Substack channel, Morgoth’s Review, the blogger touches on themes including anti-environmentalism and “Covid-19 fearmongering”.
Im not sure why you would give this article any credibility dan , (its behind a paywall) but if the author is indeed equating Tolkien with fascism and far right ideology , then of course as an avid Tolkien fan , this is absurd. Tolkien allegedly wrote the middle earth mythology based on Celtic and norse mythology .Hence the references to the various races within middle earth , and tall and fair description of the elves. Much of the lord of the rings was written prior to , and during the early years of the Second World War , with the quiet rustic hobbits standing up to the evil fascism of morder. The shadow of the past section of the fellowship was supposed to be written with a mind to events in the real world at the time, the creeping growing power of the fascist regimes in Italy , Germany and Spain. Dismiss the outrage dan , and carry on enjoying Tolkien . I don't think the lesser mortals of the modern age can in any way sully this literary masterpiece in any way.
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 31, 2023 11:32:13 GMT
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 31, 2023 11:42:07 GMT
I'm reminded of the media (and legal) hullaballoo over Thomas Mair's library of 'far right' works, photos of which appeared in the popular press.
The great majority of the books were ones that any student of military history would have in his library.
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Post by wapentake on Dec 31, 2023 12:18:15 GMT
The existence of a government-compiled list of ‘key texts’ that is, ‘mainstream content shared in online spaces that are known to be frequented by terrorist and extremist influencers and susceptible audiences’ was revealed in the media several months ago.
That list was reported to include the works of authors such as C.S. Lewis, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley and Joseph Conrad as well as television programmes including the Kenneth Clark TV series Civilisation, The Thick of It, Yes Minister and Great British Railway Journeys.
Now comes news that Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings trilogy has been added to the list of ‘key texts’ for incipient white supremacists. According to a report in the Sunday Times:
“…The far right tends to view The Lord of the Rings through the lens of race, in which elves — described in the books as tall and “fair of skin” — are pitted against lesser peoples like the orcs, who are portrayed as black-skinned with features including “wide mouths” and “slant eyes”. They identify with the heroism of a ragtag group of outsiders — not unlike today’s alt-right — standing up to a tyrannical power hellbent on obliterating their traditional way of life...
The neo-Nazi organisation Patriotic Alternative has devoted part of its website to the discussion of Tolkien’s work. On its blog one member discusses how the Shire, the idyllic rural homeland of the hobbits, can be seen as an allegory of white British nationalism untouched by “cosmopolitan delights” — what the member describes as “Afro-Caribbean knife crime” and terrorism.
One of the UK’s best-known fascist bloggers uses the pseudonym Morgoth, the name given to Sauron’s villainous predecessor. On his YouTube and Substack channel, Morgoth’s Review, the blogger touches on themes including anti-environmentalism and “Covid-19 fearmongering”.
Im not sure why you would give this article any credibility dan , (its behind a paywall) but if the author is indeed equating Tolkien with fascism and far right ideology , then of course as an avid Tolkien fan , this is absurd. Tolkien allegedly wrote the middle earth mythology based on Celtic and norse mythology .Hence the references to the various races within middle earth , and tall and fair description of the elves. Much of the lord of the rings was written prior to , and during the early years of the Second World War , with the quiet rustic hobbits standing up to the evil fascism of morder. The shadow of the past section of the fellowship was supposed to be written with a mind to events in the real world at the time, the creeping growing power of the fascist regimes in Italy , Germany and Spain. Dismiss the outrage dan , and carry on enjoying Tolkien . I don't think the lesser mortals of the modern age can in any way sully this literary masterpiece in any way. Oh blimey Thomas considering the number of his books I’ve read and reread I must be expected to sing the Horst Wessel daily,mind Martin Bormann vanished without trace maybe I should confess and adopt it as my user name. Good god the things they think up,anyway given his user name there’s nowt down for this forums owner he’ll be in Belmarsh by new year
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Post by Bentley on Dec 31, 2023 12:27:48 GMT
Who are these ‘ far right’ who tend to view The Lord of the Rings through the lens of race? I suspect they only exist in the minds of leftie students and their teachers .
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Post by thomas on Dec 31, 2023 13:41:52 GMT
well thanks for reporting this Danny , but once again , most folk won't take it serious. The far right , the far left , and every political pygmy and pressure group in between with an axe to grind are always looking for something or somewhere to jump onto to raise their profiles. That doesn't detract from the fact the middle earth myths written by Tolkien are nothing to do with any far right ideology. I mind similar outrage at the so called woke re telling of the Silmarillion tales , in amazons rings of power series. Simply because they had elves being portrayed by black actors. I haven't watched the whole series , but have watched the first part of it on amazon prime , and to me , as an avid Tolkien fan , its not the black actors that I have a problem with , but more the series so far is simply crap compared to Peter Jacksons epic hobbit trilogy. Christ knows how the shire can be seen as an allegory of white British nationalism. In Tolkiens mythology , the black skinned people in his books were the haradrim , who fought on the back of giant elephants on behalf of the forces of Sauron. I never once took the orcs as being somehow representative of black people in real life. In Tolkiens books , the orcs were creatures who had originally been elves twisted by Morgoth beyond all recognition into the exact opposite in every manner than the elves. It seems some of these modern authors have a more twisted and vivid imagination than Tolkien trying to turn this classic into some symbol of modern issues in terms of race. Laugh and ignore I would say.
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Post by wapentake on Dec 31, 2023 13:51:40 GMT
well thanks for reporting this Danny , but once again , most folk won't take it serious. The far right , the far left , and every political pygmy and pressure group in between with an axe to grind are always looking for something or somewhere to jump onto to raise their profiles. That doesn't detract from the fact the middle earth myths written by Tolkien are nothing to do with any far right ideology. I mind similar outrage at the so called woke re telling of the Silmarillion tales , in amazons rings of power series. Simply because they had elves being portrayed by black actors. I haven't watched the whole series , but have watched the first part of it on amazon prime , and to me , as an avid Tolkien fan , its not the black actors that I have a problem with , but more the series so far is simply crap compared to Peter Jacksons epic hobbit trilogy. Christ knows how the shire can be seen as an allegory of white British nationalism. In Tolkiens mythology , the black skinned people in his books were the haradrim , who fought on the back of giant elephants on behalf of the forces of Sauron. I never once took the orcs as being somehow representative of black people in real life. In Tolkiens books , the orcs were creatures who had originally been elves twisted by Morgoth beyond all recognition into the exact opposite in every manner than the elves. It seems some of these modern authors have a more twisted and vivid imagination than Tolkien trying to turn this classic into some symbol of modern issues in terms of race. Laugh and ignore I would say. Indeed Thomas these are the thoughts of Tolkien himself. Apparently some Christian groups view Harry Potter as satanic,I think it’s a pile of crap myself but that’s just my opinion.
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 31, 2023 14:16:45 GMT
Liberals, progressive and kindred ilk have never forgotten or forgiven the BNP for enlisting Tolkien and LOTR to their political cause, as in this article in 'Identity' magazine:
An extract follows, including part of an interview with John Rhys-Davis, one of the stars of the film version:
... You've enjoyed the film, so now what are you going to do about the message?
Tolkien didn't just write The Lord of the Rings for fun, you know. He wrote it to inspire people, to make people understand that- faced with bad government and threats to our way of life and our identity- ordinary people like us have to do something about it.
Having played Gimli and Treebeard, actor John Rhys-Davies probably has a better understanding of what Tolkien was trying to do with LOTR than almost anyone else in Britain. So when he sees it as a parable for our times, why should anyone doubt him?
There are clear parallels between the threat posed to Tolkien's fictional West by armies of monstrous Orcs and wicked Southrons, and the real-life challenge posed to our Western civilization and identity by New Labour's catastrophic asylum policy. And we can learn a great deal from the way in which, with treason and cowardice rampant at the 'top', it is left to ordinary people- hobbits, and the old men and boys who are the first defenders of Helm's Deep to get involved and to do the things to which their 'betters' turn blind eyes.
Rhys-Davies told journalists attending the premiere of Return of the King:
“There is a demographic catastrophe happening in Europe that nobody wants to talk about, that we daren't bring up because we are so cagey about not offending people racially. And rightly we should be. But there is a cultural thing as well… By 2020, fifty percent of the children in Holland under the age of 18 will be of Muslim descent.”
“And don't forget, coupled with this there is this collapse of numbers. Western Europeans are not having any babies. The population of Germany at the end of the century is going to be 56% of what it is now. The populations of France, 52% of what it is now. The population of Italy is going to be down 7 million people.”
"I think that Tolkien says that some generations will be challenged. And if they do not rise to meet that challenge, they will lose their civilization. That does have a real resonance with me.”
...
We in the British National Party are organising politically to fight for the right of the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish natives of these islands to retain control of our own destiny and to preserve our own identity. That's why we'll be contesting every single seat in the country in June's European Elections, calling for Britain to be set free from the Eurocrats in Brussels/Mordor, and for an immediate halt to the mass immigration which is turning our 'Shire' into an overcrowded, over-developed slum like Isengard.
Whether you think of yourself as a Rider of Rohan, as an Elf or as a simple, fun-loving Hobbit, the dark days that Tolkien foresaw are almost upon us all, and your duty is clear: Join the British National Party and our great real-life battle to save the West. [/b] [/div]
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 31, 2023 14:23:26 GMT
According to Douglas Murray, another of the 'key texts' in the list of 'gateway' works to white supremacism is his own best-seller 'The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam' (2017).
"...In one RICU document a number of books are singled out, the possession or reading of which could point to severe wrongthink and therefore potential radicalisation. These include a book on the Rotherham rape gangs, books by Peter Hitchens, Melanie Phillips and – once again – me. Without wanting to beat my own drum, the book of mine that is singled out for this sinister treatment is my 2017 work The Strange Death of Europe. This book spent almost 20 weeks in the Sunday Times bestseller lists, has been translated into dozens of languages and was for some time the bestselling non-fiction book in the UK. So that is an awful lot of potential radicals just there."
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Post by thomas on Dec 31, 2023 14:28:11 GMT
Liberals, progressive and kindred ilk have never forgotten or forgiven the BNP for enlisting Tolkien and LOTR to their political cause, as in this article in 'Identity' magazine:
An extract follows, including part of an interview with John Rhys-Davis, one of the stars of the film version:
... You've enjoyed the film, so now what are you going to do about the message?
Tolkien didn't just write The Lord of the Rings for fun, you know. He wrote it to inspire people, to make people understand that- faced with bad government and threats to our way of life and our identity- ordinary people like us have to do something about it.
Having played Gimli and Treebeard, actor John Rhys-Davies probably has a better understanding of what Tolkien was trying to do with LOTR than almost anyone else in Britain. So when he sees it as a parable for our times, why should anyone doubt him?
There are clear parallels between the threat posed to Tolkien's fictional West by armies of monstrous Orcs and wicked Southrons, and the real-life challenge posed to our Western civilization and identity by New Labour's catastrophic asylum policy. And we can learn a great deal from the way in which, with treason and cowardice rampant at the 'top', it is left to ordinary people- hobbits, and the old men and boys who are the first defenders of Helm's Deep to get involved and to do the things to which their 'betters' turn blind eyes.
Rhys-Davies told journalists attending the premiere of Return of the King:
“There is a demographic catastrophe happening in Europe that nobody wants to talk about, that we daren't bring up because we are so cagey about not offending people racially. And rightly we should be. But there is a cultural thing as well… By 2020, fifty percent of the children in Holland under the age of 18 will be of Muslim descent.”
“And don't forget, coupled with this there is this collapse of numbers. Western Europeans are not having any babies. The population of Germany at the end of the century is going to be 56% of what it is now. The populations of France, 52% of what it is now. The population of Italy is going to be down 7 million people.”
"I think that Tolkien says that some generations will be challenged. And if they do not rise to meet that challenge, they will lose their civilization. That does have a real resonance with me.”
...
We in the British National Party are organising politically to fight for the right of the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish natives of these islands to retain control of our own destiny and to preserve our own identity. That's why we'll be contesting every single seat in the country in June's European Elections, calling for Britain to be set free from the Eurocrats in Brussels/Mordor, and for an immediate halt to the mass immigration which is turning our 'Shire' into an overcrowded, over-developed slum like Isengard.
Whether you think of yourself as a Rider of Rohan, as an Elf or as a simple, fun-loving Hobbit, the dark days that Tolkien foresaw are almost upon us all, and your duty is clear: Join the British National Party and our great real-life battle to save the West. I think you are over estimating the BNP power dan. This is the first I have heard of the BNP trying to enlist Tolkien works for their nonsensical political cause. The BNP were regarded as nothing more than a funny wee pressure group in Scotland . I had no idea they were still in business. ive got you now though. Basically , you are trying to piggy back on the back of the outrage bus to garner some support for this pathetic party . I haven't checked recent polls, but traditionally , the BNP support was that low that the majors pollsters didnt even single out their pitiful figures.
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 31, 2023 14:29:54 GMT
No flies on you eh Tommo.
Not surprising you haven't heard of it before, at the time it was published you were probably still in short trousers.
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Post by wapentake on Dec 31, 2023 14:32:14 GMT
Liberals, progressive and kindred ilk have never forgotten or forgiven the BNP for enlisting Tolkien and LOTR to their political cause, as in this article in 'Identity' magazine:
An extract follows, including part of an interview with John Rhys-Davis, one of the stars of the film version:
... You've enjoyed the film, so now what are you going to do about the message?
Tolkien didn't just write The Lord of the Rings for fun, you know. He wrote it to inspire people, to make people understand that- faced with bad government and threats to our way of life and our identity- ordinary people like us have to do something about it.
Having played Gimli and Treebeard, actor John Rhys-Davies probably has a better understanding of what Tolkien was trying to do with LOTR than almost anyone else in Britain. So when he sees it as a parable for our times, why should anyone doubt him?
There are clear parallels between the threat posed to Tolkien's fictional West by armies of monstrous Orcs and wicked Southrons, and the real-life challenge posed to our Western civilization and identity by New Labour's catastrophic asylum policy. And we can learn a great deal from the way in which, with treason and cowardice rampant at the 'top', it is left to ordinary people- hobbits, and the old men and boys who are the first defenders of Helm's Deep to get involved and to do the things to which their 'betters' turn blind eyes.
Rhys-Davies told journalists attending the premiere of Return of the King:
“There is a demographic catastrophe happening in Europe that nobody wants to talk about, that we daren't bring up because we are so cagey about not offending people racially. And rightly we should be. But there is a cultural thing as well… By 2020, fifty percent of the children in Holland under the age of 18 will be of Muslim descent.”
“And don't forget, coupled with this there is this collapse of numbers. Western Europeans are not having any babies. The population of Germany at the end of the century is going to be 56% of what it is now. The populations of France, 52% of what it is now. The population of Italy is going to be down 7 million people.”
"I think that Tolkien says that some generations will be challenged. And if they do not rise to meet that challenge, they will lose their civilization. That does have a real resonance with me.”
...
We in the British National Party are organising politically to fight for the right of the English, Scots, Welsh and Irish natives of these islands to retain control of our own destiny and to preserve our own identity. That's why we'll be contesting every single seat in the country in June's European Elections, calling for Britain to be set free from the Eurocrats in Brussels/Mordor, and for an immediate halt to the mass immigration which is turning our 'Shire' into an overcrowded, over-developed slum like Isengard.
Whether you think of yourself as a Rider of Rohan, as an Elf or as a simple, fun-loving Hobbit, the dark days that Tolkien foresaw are almost upon us all, and your duty is clear: Join the British National Party and our great real-life battle to save the West. Having read what Tolkien himself said I think John Rhys Davies is talking through his rectum.
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Post by thomas on Dec 31, 2023 14:33:06 GMT
No flies on you eh Tommo. you are too quick for us uneducated plebs Danny boy. or shall I call you grima worm tongue in keeping with the thread......? The BNP? Honestly Danny , you are pulling my fucking leg aren't you?
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Post by Dan Dare on Dec 31, 2023 14:42:14 GMT
No, I'm not. The BNP made great propaganda from the messaging of LOTR. The lefties had no answer to it.
You reminded me that Wormtongue was the character they assigned to home secretary David Blunkett, he of 'There is no obvious upper limit to the number of immigrants that Britain can absorb' fame.
Before your time no doubt.
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