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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 30, 2023 16:42:51 GMT
So it's not just election day polls that are worth discussing? If you had of read fully my opening post, I wondered howm many will regret which box they ticked on the forthcomming may. There are a great many younger voters out there who do not how crass life can be under labour. People don't vote for who they want to govern. They vote against who they don't want. There are a lot more reasons not to want the Tories than Labour. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 30, 2023 16:44:36 GMT
Well you could always re_read your own thread Andy. I quite clearly said: which is not saying that a thread on polls is pointless. I was taught in plain English Andy and not plain Liberal. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 30, 2023 16:46:29 GMT
If you had of read fully my opening post, I wondered howm many will regret which box they ticked on the forthcomming may. There are a great many younger voters out there who do not how crass life can be under labour. People don't vote for who they want to govern. They vote against who they don't want.There are a lot more reasons not to want the Tories than Labour. Well we don't want the torys in their present form and we certainly don't want more of the same only worse from labour. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 30, 2023 16:50:28 GMT
If you had of read fully my opening post, I wondered howm many will regret which box they ticked on the forthcomming may. There are a great many younger voters out there who do not how crass life can be under labour. People don't vote for who they want to govern. They vote against who they don't want. There are a lot more reasons not to want the Tories than Labour. Since there's so little difference between Labour and Tory policy these days, the only people who would say there were more reasons to vote Labour are lefties who would vote Labour under any circumstances. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 30, 2023 16:59:26 GMT
People don't vote for who they want to govern. They vote against who they don't want. There are a lot more reasons not to want the Tories than Labour. Since there's so little difference between Labour and Tory policy these days, the only people who would say there were more reasons to vote Labour are lefties who would vote Labour under any circumstances. Lefty voters vote against the Tories. If this forum is anything to go by, conservatives are going to vote against the Tories too. It doesn't bode well. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 30, 2023 17:06:11 GMT
People don't vote for who they want to govern. They vote against who they don't want. There are a lot more reasons not to want the Tories than Labour. Since there's so little difference between Labour and Tory policy these days, the only people who would say there were more reasons to vote Labour are lefties who would vote Labour under any circumstances. Yes, it's simple tribalism. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 30, 2023 17:12:18 GMT
Since there's so little difference between Labour and Tory policy these days, the only people who would say there were more reasons to vote Labour are lefties who would vote Labour under any circumstances. Lefty voters vote against the Tories. If this forum is anything to go by, conservatives are going to vote against the Tories too. It doesn't bode well. I think many Labour and Tory voters will vote Reform. The establishment don't want to acknowledge the fact that immigration illegal or otherwise is a big issue. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Dec 30, 2023 18:02:11 GMT
Lefty voters vote against the Tories. If this forum is anything to go by, conservatives are going to vote against the Tories too. It doesn't bode well. I think many Labour and Tory voters will vote Reform. The establishment don't want to acknowledge the fact that immigration illegal or otherwise is a big issue. I hope that they do. That would be the end of this self serving government, and bare out the soul searching in the Conservative Party that Labour went through with Corbyn. |
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Post by wapentake on Dec 30, 2023 18:11:48 GMT
I don't think there's anything new in that UKVI poll. They've been pretty steady for some months now. What for me was interesting in the article was about the popularity of Tony Blair. I thought from reading this forum that he was universally detested. Seemingly I was wrong. Well tbh as has already been said younger people need educating,but then I am biased since I detest him,interestingly whilst on the subject of Blair papers released show how him and his personal Goebbels in the shape of Campbell tried to bully and threaten the BBC which perhaps displays the idea that the beeb are left and biased isn’t correct as in this case they were doing what they should and holding the executive to account. A few links,the first wont please see2 I suspect but they are well worth a read. link
link
The second link above shows Campbell in his true light,and in fact in a fairly recent QT he threatened a journo with legal action. Blairs private Secretary warned him perhaps the younger generation should be made aware…..if only. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 30, 2023 18:16:14 GMT
I think many Labour and Tory voters will vote Reform. The establishment don't want to acknowledge the fact that immigration illegal or otherwise is a big issue. I hope that they do. That would be the end of this self serving government, and bare out the soul searching in the Conservative Party that Labour went through with Corbyn. Many in the Tory party are very aware that the reason the government are trailing Labour in the polls is because Sunak is a pro immigration, pro EU, centrist geek, not a Conservative. I wonder if Sunak wonders why 'center right' Jacob Rees-Mogg has been voted most popular Tory backbencher? |
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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2023 21:08:58 GMT
People don't vote for who they want to govern. They vote against who they don't want. There are a lot more reasons not to want the Tories than Labour. Since there's so little difference between Labour and Tory policy these days, the only people who would say there were more reasons to vote Labour are lefties who would vote Labour under any circumstances. That is straight out of the Rightist misleading propaganda machine. Nothing to do with reality. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 30, 2023 21:13:06 GMT
Since there's so little difference between Labour and Tory policy these days, the only people who would say there were more reasons to vote Labour are lefties who would vote Labour under any circumstances. That is straight out of the Rightist misleading propaganda machine. Nothing to do with reality. LOL, calm down dear. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 30, 2023 21:29:39 GMT
Lefty voters vote against the Tories. If this forum is anything to go by, conservatives are going to vote against the Tories too. It doesn't bode well. I think many Labour and Tory voters will vote Reform. The establishment don't want to acknowledge the fact that immigration illegal or otherwise is a big issue. I don't think that is right. The Tory party are the current establishment and they are desperate to make the next election all about immigration. Hence all the fuss about an insignificant amount of asylum seekers arriving by small boats and the equally insignificant numbers they are trying to send to Rwanda. This is because the public have lost faith in the Tories ability to run the economy, usually a Tory strong point. This gives Labour the upper hand over the economy and the mismanagement of the NHS to campaign on. Those are the battle lines. Reform, of course, will just split the vote on the right. The Labour voters who defected to Boris on the single issue of Brexit have been failed by ''levelling up'' and will return to Labour. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 30, 2023 21:54:30 GMT
I don't think there's anything new in that UKVI poll. They've been pretty steady for some months now. What for me was interesting in the article was about the popularity of Tony Blair. I thought from reading this forum that he was universally detested. Seemingly I was wrong. Well tbh as has already been said younger people need educating,but then I am biased since I detest him,interestingly whilst on the subject of Blair papers released show how him and his personal Goebbels in the shape of Campbell tried to bully and threaten the BBC which perhaps displays the idea that the beeb are left and biased isn’t correct as in this case they were doing what they should and holding the executive to account. A few links,the first wont please see2 I suspect but they are well worth a read. link
link
The second link above shows Campbell in his true light,and in fact in a fairly recent QT he threatened a journo with legal action. Blairs private Secretary warned him perhaps the younger generation should be made aware…..if only. There was I believe two actions taken by Blair that were not UN led, but were covered by Later changes that followed the intervention by Blair and others against the mas murder and rape by the Serbs. (I can come back to that if your wish.) As for the two non-UN actions taken in Iraq, while a state of war still existed were: 1. The No Fly zones imposed on the Iraqi Air Force in reply to. --- A] Iraqi bombing a long line of Kurdish refugees who were fleeing Iraqi persecution. --- B] The continued bombing of Kuwait despite having just had their invasion repulsed. 2. In the run up to the bombing in 1997/98 the UN had issued one of many Resolutions demanding access for inspectors and no more 'cat and mouse' games. The resolution. Demanding entrance to areas for the UN Inspectors. (Back soon with Un Res.) "1060 12 June 1996 Unanimous Demands Iraq allow access to sites, weapons, transport and equipment by United Nations Special Commission weapons inspectors." This was 5years after the Ceasefire agreement that required free access for Inspectors was signed by Saddam. The areas that were bombed were some of the areas where Saddam had blocked the inspectors. The HUGE lie in the link is that it was a first step step into an illegal invasion of Iraq. So very clearly not a reliably objective source of information.
As the link to Alistair Campbell led to nothing I'm not sure why you posted it. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Dec 30, 2023 22:04:25 GMT
I think many Labour and Tory voters will vote Reform. The establishment don't want to acknowledge the fact that immigration illegal or otherwise is a big issue. I don't think that is right. The Tory party are the current establishment and they are desperate to make the next election all about immigration. Hence all the fuss about an insignificant amount of asylum seekers arriving by small boats and the equally insignificant numbers they are trying to send to Rwanda. This is because the public have lost faith in the Tories ability to run the economy, usually a Tory strong point. This gives Labour the upper hand over the economy and the mismanagement of the NHS to campaign on. Those are the battle lines. Reform, of course, will just split the vote on the right. The Labour voters who defected to Boris on the single issue of Brexit have been failed by ''levelling up'' and will return to Labour. The 'establishment' is not the government. The establishment refers to the political elite. From King Charles to president Blair, civil servants, the Home Office, Charities, College of Policing, Quangos, universities and the BBC, the 'establishment' is left wing, and the establishment do not want immigrants or immigration on any agenda. The establishment do not want immigration talked about. Politicians, especially Labour politicians will, like you, say immigration is not an issue and insist anyone who talks about immigration is a far right extremist and should be ignored. It's how the establishment regarded UKIP a decade ago. This time it's Reform UK, but the result will be the same because regardless of the left wing establishment, people are sick of mass immigration. |
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