|
Post by wapentake on Dec 20, 2023 16:58:16 GMT
Be careful with capital punishment if Police cannot solve murders sometimes they fix-up the closest suspect. That is correct and has happened,whole life terms in particular murders should mean just that
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 20, 2023 17:03:58 GMT
Be careful with capital punishment if Police cannot solve murders sometimes they fix-up the closest suspect. More people have been killed by released murderers than have ever been fitted up by the police.
|
|
|
Post by wapentake on Dec 20, 2023 17:19:28 GMT
Be careful with capital punishment if Police cannot solve murders sometimes they fix-up the closest suspect. DNA and forensic science have moved on since the days of fitting people up.
If capital punishment was ever restored it would be 100% guaranteed the person was guilty, because the police might lie but DNA doesn't.
I’m afraid that’s not correct,a lot can depend on who is doing the testing and since the National forensic science service was privatised there have been errors as per the Randox Laboratory in Manchester and though the DNA scientists here tried to rubbish it there has been further doubt. And don’t forget that Lucy Letby was convicted and people were calling for the return of capital punishment for her despite the fact all the evidence was totally circumstantial.
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2023 17:25:03 GMT
Be careful with capital punishment if Police cannot solve murders sometimes they fix-up the closest suspect. DNA and forensic science have moved on since the days of fitting people up.
If capital punishment was ever restored it would be 100% guaranteed the person was guilty, because the police might lie but DNA doesn't.
No chance, someone else's DNA could be set up by the real killer.
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Dec 20, 2023 17:26:52 GMT
Be careful with capital punishment if Police cannot solve murders sometimes they fix-up the closest suspect. More people have been killed by released murderers than have ever been fitted up by the police. You might be right, but I suspect there is no evidence to back up what appears to be your opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Fairsociety on Dec 20, 2023 17:39:22 GMT
DNA and forensic science have moved on since the days of fitting people up.
If capital punishment was ever restored it would be 100% guaranteed the person was guilty, because the police might lie but DNA doesn't.
I’m afraid that’s not correct,a lot can depend on who is doing the testing and since the National forensic science service was privatised there have been errors as per the Randox Laboratory in Manchester and though the DNA scientists here tried to rubbish it there has been further doubt. And don’t forget that Lucy Letby was convicted and people were calling for the return of capital punishment for her despite the fact all the evidence was totally circumstantial. Point taken, but in the case of Letby where it probably did hinge of circumstantial evidence, I doubt the death penalty would apply.
The defense team would rip apart any dodgy DNA evidence, if it is 'indisputable' DNA evidence then the death penalty would apply, also not forgetting the likes of Ian Brady fought most of his life to have the death penalty, because he was guilty as charged and did not want to rot in prison, which would have saved the tax payers considerably.
|
|
|
Post by borchester on Dec 20, 2023 17:57:01 GMT
If Lawrence Bierton had been executed for committing double murder in 1996, his third victim Pauline Quinn would be alive today. As opposed to Timothy John Evans, who was strung up on 9 March 1950 for murders committed by John Christie
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Dec 20, 2023 17:59:12 GMT
' hard right extremism'! Pillock. 55 years ago when capital punishment was abolished (For most capital crimes) the establishment assured a sceptical electorate that life would mean life, Ha. In the 1960's the train robbers got 30 years for stealing money, today a murderer will serve half that before being considered for parole. Even to an outraged lefty like you it must be patently obvious why our prisons are full punishment is no deterrent and crime is out of control. That's right, thanks to progressive trendy lefties we have gone soft on crime. It ain't rocket science. You post like an outraged Far Righty screaming for extremism. Which is why such Righties must never gain control, between your extremism and the unbelievable horrors of extreme right wing control in many countries, it is clear that avoiding this extremism is a necessity. Punishment is no deterrent, neither is the death penalty. For me three things need to happen: 1. Correct the law. 2. Ensure that mothers in particular learn and understand the needs, not wants, of the child, and especially those of the male child. 3. Greater fairness in a 'one people society'. If the country would clean up its act there would be far less crime to have to deal with. Honestly, you do talk some bloody rubbish. In your expert (lol) opinion, when was the last time we had a far right extremist government who imposed unbelievable horrors on this country? Honestly you're such a drama queen, a typical shouty lefty. As for crime and punishment. Prison is first and foremost a "punishment". If it also acts as a deterrent all well and good, but make no mistake the primary purpose of prison is to deny offenders their liberty, or to put it another way, to punish them. Unfortunately the relaxed and comfortable regime todays offenders are faced with is little punishment and no deterrent, as shown by the ridiculous rates of recidivism. As for your three points: 1. I agree, the law should be corrected, as you put it. However I think we may be talking at cross purposes. 2. I'm not quite sure where this little vignette is going, or indeed what it has to do with crime and punishment! 3. Explain what you mean by a 'one person society'.
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Dec 20, 2023 18:05:00 GMT
If Lawrence Bierton had been executed for committing double murder in 1996, his third victim Pauline Quinn would be alive today. As opposed to Timothy John Evans, who was strung up on 9 March 1950 for murders committed by John Christie I'm very aware of the Timothy Evans case, unfortunately his conviction is down to incompetent police officers who neglected to carry out DNA tests. Oh, wait a minute...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 18:11:30 GMT
Just imagine how many innocent people would now be dead if we had not done away with capital punishment ?
Timothy Evans, neighbour of John Christie was wrongly found guilty of murdering his wife and child, he was hung.
There is a list of people who have been imprisoned for murder, and later found to be innocent and released, but if we still had the death penalty, they would have been hung as innocent people.
in the USA, 130 people sentenced to death have been found innocent since 1973 and released from death row. Source: Amnesty
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Dec 20, 2023 18:58:36 GMT
Just imagine how many innocent people would now be dead if we had not done away with capital punishment ? Timothy Evans, neighbour of John Christie was wrongly found guilty of murdering his wife and child, he was hung. There is a list of people who have been imprisoned for murder, and later found to be innocent and released, but if we still had the death penalty, they would have been hung as innocent people. in the USA, 130 people sentenced to death have been found innocent since 1973 and released from death row. Source: Amnesty In the past decade alone no fewar than 129 murderers who were jailed for life were freed to kill again - link - Just imagine how many innocent people would be alive today if the punishment properly fitted the crime. Why do lefties always mention Evans? Things have moved on quite a lot over the past 70 years. Back then there was no such thing as DNA profiling. Unlike today prison was a strict and austere environment in which offenders did not want to visit twice. Today lefty lawyers would have a field day if prisoners were incarcerated in strict austere prisons. Not interested in USA.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 19:28:39 GMT
So now we do a trade-off between innocent people convicted of crimes who get the death penalty, against those murdered by people who would otherwise have been hung.
No thank you
One innocent person sentenced to death for a crime they did not commit is too many, and if anything is needed here, it is not the return of the death penalty, it is for Life Sentence to mean Life.
The other important thing to point out is that the death penalty is not a deterant - the USA is virtually the only western democracy which still uses the death penalty, and yet it has the highest homocide rate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 19:36:15 GMT
Triple killer sentenced to life in prison, again. Lawrence Bierton was sentenced to life in prison in 1996 for murdering two people. He was released on licence in 2017 (21 years for murdering two people) He was recalled to prison in July 2018 for repeated failures to address his behaviour. He was released for a second time in May 2020 and murdered again in 2021 - linkIf Lawrence Bierton had been executed for committing double murder in 1996, his third victim Pauline Quinn would be alive today. If life really meant life as it should do, he would never have been released to kill again. We dont need to risk executing innocent people through miscarriages of justice just to protect the public. Lock them up for life. Anyone subsequently found to be innocent can be released and compensated. You cannot release and compensate a corpse. But the guilty should never get released and only ever come out in a box.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 19:38:09 GMT
Be careful with capital punishment if Police cannot solve murders sometimes they fix-up the closest suspect. More people have been killed by released murderers than have ever been fitted up by the police. The answer is not to execute them in the certain knowledge that some innocent people will be judicially murdered as collateral damage. The answer is not to release murderers in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by Red Rackham on Dec 20, 2023 19:40:01 GMT
Triple killer sentenced to life in prison, again. Lawrence Bierton was sentenced to life in prison in 1996 for murdering two people. He was released on licence in 2017 (21 years for murdering two people) He was recalled to prison in July 2018 for repeated failures to address his behaviour. He was released for a second time in May 2020 and murdered again in 2021 - linkIf Lawrence Bierton had been executed for committing double murder in 1996, his third victim Pauline Quinn would be alive today. If life really meant life as it should do, he would never have been released to kill again. We dont need to risk executing innocent people through miscarriages of justice just to protect the public. Lock them up for life. Anyone subsequently found to be innocent can be released and compensated. You cannot release and compensate a corpse. But the guilty should never get released and only ever come out in a box. When there is no doubt of a defendants guilt, and he is found guilty of pre meditated cold blooded murder, he should swing.
|
|