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Post by sandypine on Dec 17, 2023 14:23:37 GMT
That may well be the case but how do you impose a two state solution when neither side will compromise on the borders and will continue to knock lumps off each other in Jerusalem and other contentious areas? All you will do is create more problems further down the line and Israel are always careful of losing their Jewish majority as we know what will happen if an Arab majority comes about Internationally. Have we not already done that? |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2023 14:33:35 GMT
Have we not already done that? No, it has been put up as a solution many times but always avoided in the end, this time it has rung home in places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and China to name but a few of the big players. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 17, 2023 14:39:27 GMT
Have we not already done that? No, it has been put up as a solution many times but always avoided in the end, this time it has rung home in places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and China to name but a few of the big players. Was not 'internationally' what was tried in 1948? |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2023 14:41:54 GMT
No, it has been put up as a solution many times but always avoided in the end, this time it has rung home in places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and China to name but a few of the big players. Was not 'internationally' what was tried in 1948? The world is now a different place from 1948. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 17, 2023 14:55:15 GMT
Was not 'internationally' what was tried in 1948? The world is now a different place from 1948. Yes but the two sides have now another seventy five years of history to add to the 'injustices' they both feel and fear. Arab and Muslim nations hold much more power in the UN than before so the balance has changed. Imposition of a settlement will not work as either one or both will feel it is unjust. In 1948 it was imposed and the Arabs said no way, you can impose it again, and will have to be imposed, as the right of return still lingers in the background and those numbers have increased to many millions. Israel will not accept millions returning to overwhelm their state and given the history who can blame them. Arabs want an end to Israel or a massive reduction in its size. People may talk about te 1967 borders but they proved indefencilbe. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2023 15:01:35 GMT
The world is now a different place from 1948. Yes but the two sides have now another seventy five years of history to add to the 'injustices' they both feel and fear. Arab and Muslim nations hold much more power in the UN than before so the balance has changed. Imposition of a settlement will not work as either one or both will feel it is unjust. In 1948 it was imposed and the Arabs said no way, you can impose it again, and will have to be imposed, as the right of return still lingers in the background and those numbers have increased to many millions. Israel will not accept millions returning to overwhelm their state and given the history who can blame them. Arabs want an end to Israel or a massive reduction in its size. People may talk about te 1967 borders but they proved indefencilbe. Then both sides are in for a rude awakening, so they had better get used to the idea this time. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2023 15:05:59 GMT
No, it has been put up as a solution many times but always avoided in the end, this time it has rung home in places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and China to name but a few of the big players. Was not 'internationally' what was tried in 1948? ""Nakba" or "catastrophe" is a reference to the forced removal of an estimated 750,000 Palestinians from their homes when Israel was founded in 1948. Palestinians see it as a core element of their identity. During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, some Jewish militias massacred Palestinian civilians, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported." |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 17, 2023 15:06:50 GMT
Yes but the two sides have now another seventy five years of history to add to the 'injustices' they both feel and fear. Arab and Muslim nations hold much more power in the UN than before so the balance has changed. Imposition of a settlement will not work as either one or both will feel it is unjust. In 1948 it was imposed and the Arabs said no way, you can impose it again, and will have to be imposed, as the right of return still lingers in the background and those numbers have increased to many millions. Israel will not accept millions returning to overwhelm their state and given the history who can blame them. Arabs want an end to Israel or a massive reduction in its size. People may talk about te 1967 borders but they proved indefencilbe. Then both sides are in for a rude awakening, so they had better get used to the idea this time. Well both sides can resort to terrorism, and there is little doubt they will as it is seen by many as a defence mechanism. By all means try it, I think it is doomed to failure as 'the river to the sea' is self explanatory. Out of curiosity what type of imposition would you foresee in terms of the current borders and what would happen as regards the 5 million Palestinian refugees and the West Bank settlements. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2023 15:08:47 GMT
Then both sides are in for a rude awakening, so they had better get used to the idea this time. Well both sides can resort to terrorism, and there is little doubt they will as it is seen by many as a defence mechanism. By all means try it, I think it is doomed to failure as 'the river to the sea' is self explanatory. Out of curiosity what type of imposition would you foresee in terms of the current borders and what would happen as regards the 5 million Palestinian refugees and the West Bank settlements. If I was you, I would get behind the two-state solution. Rather than try and find ways around it this time. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 17, 2023 15:10:34 GMT
Was not 'internationally' what was tried in 1948? ""Nakba" or "catastrophe" is a reference to the forced removal of an estimated 750,000 Palestinians from their homes when Israel was founded in 1948. Palestinians see it as a core element of their identity. During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, some Jewish militias massacred Palestinian civilians, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz reported." Did the Arab armies in any way say that many Arabs should leave and could return once Israel was destroyed? You are using the term 'forced removal' for 750,000 people yet many, and I am not saying all, were advised to leave by the Arab nations. I think we need to stop with the language that is not really a true reflection of the complicated picture that existed at the time. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 17, 2023 15:12:40 GMT
Well both sides can resort to terrorism, and there is little doubt they will as it is seen by many as a defence mechanism. By all means try it, I think it is doomed to failure as 'the river to the sea' is self explanatory. Out of curiosity what type of imposition would you foresee in terms of the current borders and what would happen as regards the 5 million Palestinian refugees and the West Bank settlements. If I was you, I would get behind the two-state solution. Rather than try and find ways around it this time. I cannot get behind that which I feel will not really work, I can accept if that is the way the world wants to go then I may be outvoted and would support whatever was tried but I can argue now that it will not work. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2023 15:19:53 GMT
If I was you, I would get behind the two-state solution. Rather than try and find ways around it this time. I cannot get behind that which I feel will not really work, I can accept if that is the way the world wants to go then I may be outvoted and would support whatever was tried but I can argue now that it will not work. I wonder how many said that about Northern Ireland. Nobody said it was easy. |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 17, 2023 15:21:15 GMT
I cannot get behind that which I feel will not really work, I can accept if that is the way the world wants to go then I may be outvoted and would support whatever was tried but I can argue now that it will not work. I wonder how many said that about Northern Ireland. Nobody said it was easy. It is not really solved though is it and that was not internationally imposed. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2023 15:22:59 GMT
If I was you, I would get behind the two-state solution. Rather than try and find ways around it this time. I cannot get behind that which I feel will not really work, I can accept if that is the way the world wants to go then I may be outvoted and would support whatever was tried but I can argue now that it will not work. Considering they want all the Jews out of Israel then of course it won't work. Sunak, who isn't even elected and is just some slimey liar who slipped in through the cracks is only for it because Tory HQ wants to win over the Muslim vote. |
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Post by sheepy on Dec 17, 2023 15:23:34 GMT
I wonder how many said that about Northern Ireland. Nobody said it was easy. It is not really solved though is it and that was not internationally imposed. Most people have peace there will always be those who try and change that, no it was imposed mostly by the yanks. Who are being very hypocritical for the minute. |
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