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Post by Bentley on Dec 13, 2023 10:17:07 GMT
Of course . But afaik Ukrainians are not trying to enter the UK illegally . But it is legal under international law. Braverman's legislation making them criminals is itself illegal under international law. They are criminals . They are colluding with criminal traffickers to illegally enter the UK . They are not asylum seekers because they do not need asylum . The UK should not be a hostage of nonsensical and archaic laws. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2023 10:28:18 GMT
Do you really think they cared about the actual legislation? I think it was just an opportunity to embarrass the government by almost defeating them, which they actually deserved. I don't think Rishi will outlast many more months. It's 4 years since Boris won the oven ready deal election. Get Brexit done. It was done. Now we have totally lost control of our borders, for which Boris and Rishi must take the blame. Do I think 'who' cared about the legislation? Clearly the government benches did, the opposition benches did not. I'm not sure what debate and vote you're referring to, this evenings vote on Rwanda was comfortably won because not one single Tory MP voted against the government. As for Sunak, I care not a jot whether he lasts another five minutes. I have never made any secret of the fact that I don't like him. The rest of your waffle is, well, waffle. When you post late at night your judgement seems skewed RR, can't imagine why. I think you got the wrong end of the stick when processing my waffle. 269 MPs voted against it, there's less than 200 Labour MPs. They are the ones which don't care about the legislation and want to embarrass the government. Hth. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 13, 2023 10:29:15 GMT
Similarly, anyone who has travelled to the UK from the Ukraine will have passed through safe countries (particularly Poland). They're still refugees. In the case of Ukranian refugees, they did so by arrangement with the various governments - and they pretty well stuck to those arrangements Believe it or not, 'illegal' entry into the UK has been agreed by the UK. The UK agreed to it when it signed the Refugee Convention. As long as the UK remains a signatory of the Refugee Convention, those refugees are arriving in accordance with a legally binding agreement. Ukrainian refugees are arriving via a safe country by agreement. Those arriving from France are arriving via a safe country by agreement. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 13, 2023 10:35:15 GMT
But it is legal under international law. Braverman's legislation making them criminals is itself illegal under international law. They are criminals . They are colluding with criminal traffickers to illegally enter the UK . They are not asylum seekers because they do not need asylum . The UK should not be a hostage of nonsensical and archaic laws. International law allows them to enter a safe country illegally. Strictly speaking, they are criminals under domestic law. But international law imposes a duty to grant a pardon. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 13, 2023 10:37:00 GMT
They are criminals . They are colluding with criminal traffickers to illegally enter the UK . They are not asylum seekers because they do not need asylum . The UK should not be a hostage of nonsensical and archaic laws. International law allows them to enter a safe country illegally. Strictly speaking, they are criminals under domestic law. But international law imposes a duty to grant a pardon. They are already in a safe country..France |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 13, 2023 10:38:32 GMT
International law allows them to enter a safe country illegally. Strictly speaking, they are criminals under domestic law. But international law imposes a duty to grant a pardon. They are already in a safe country..France Ukrainians were already in a safe country: Poland. They still have refugee status in the UK. And before you say that the UK agreed to this, the UK also agreed to the Refugee Convention, which allows refugees to arrive from the safe country of France. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 13, 2023 10:44:25 GMT
They are already in a safe country..France Ukrainians were already in a safe country: Poland. If you can’t or won’t accept that there is a difference then there is no point in continuing. 1Refugees processed in Poland and officially entering the UK . 2Migrants crossing Europe and entering the UK via illegal trafficker without being processed . |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 13, 2023 10:47:13 GMT
Ukrainians were already in a safe country: Poland. If you can’t or won’t accept that there is a difference then there is no point in continuing. 1Refugees processed in Poland and officially entering the UK . 2Migrants crossing Europe and entering the UK via illegal trafficker without being processed . What do you mean by 'officially' entering the UK. Those arriving from France are arriving by warrant of an internationally binding agreement. It doesn't get any more 'official' than that. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2023 10:47:24 GMT
So the 'law' that Rwanda is a safe country has passed through Parliament, which now sets up a contradiction in law. No it does not - the 'Law' is what Parliament decides. This is not America (sniff) Parliament can only pass laws within the current laws and I have not heard of any laws being repealed. We will find that now our law is different that the courts will be busier than ever. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 13, 2023 10:53:29 GMT
If you can’t or won’t accept that there is a difference then there is no point in continuing. 1Refugees processed in Poland and officially entering the UK . 2Migrants crossing Europe and entering the UK via illegal trafficker without being processed . What do you mean by 'officially' entering the UK. Those arriving from France are arriving by warrant of an internationally binding agreement. It doesn't get more official than that. They are a rag bag of migrants landing on our beaches via criminal gangs . |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 13, 2023 10:55:54 GMT
What do you mean by 'officially' entering the UK. Those arriving from France are arriving by warrant of an internationally binding agreement. It doesn't get more official than that. They are a rag bag of migrants landing on our beaches via criminal gangs . They are arriving in the UK by warrant of a legally binding agreement freely entered by the UK. They have refugee status under international law. It's okay if you don't like that. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 13, 2023 10:57:39 GMT
They are a rag bag of migrants landing on our beaches via criminal gangs . They are arriving in the UK by warrant of a legally binding agreement freely entered by the UK. No they are not. They are breaking into the UK which is illegal under UK law. |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 13, 2023 10:58:56 GMT
They are arriving in the UK by warrant of a legally binding agreement freely entered by the UK. No they are not. They are breaking into the UK which is illegal under UK law. Yes, it has recently been made illegal under UK law. But the UK law that made it illegal is illegal under international law. Likewise, Putin's invasion of Ukraine is legal under domestic Russian law, but it is illegal under international law. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 13, 2023 11:05:52 GMT
They are a rag bag of migrants landing on our beaches via criminal gangs . They are arriving in the UK by warrant of a legally binding agreement freely entered by the UK. They have refugee status under international law. It's okay if you don't like that. If anyone can enter the UK via criminal gangs and claim asylum then the laws that allow this should be ignored until changed . Its OK if you don’t like that . |
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Post by Einhorn on Dec 13, 2023 11:06:36 GMT
They are arriving in the UK by warrant of a legally binding agreement freely entered by the UK. They have refugee status under international law. It's okay if you don't like that. If anyone can enter the UK via criminal gangs and claim asylum then the laws that allow this should be ignored until changed . Its OK if you don’t like that . Good luck getting the courts to ignore the law. |
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