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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2023 15:34:21 GMT
Joe Calzaghe wasn’t ethnic Welsh but was he Welsh? …for example ? How about Shirley Bassey? What’s she Welsh?
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Post by thomas on Dec 4, 2023 15:36:27 GMT
what do you mean sounded Scottish sandy? The first time I ever heard a boy from rural Aberdeenshire speak in his countryside doric , I couldn't understand a thing he said to me.conversely , I can easily understand a Geordie. As you know , there are many varied and differing Scottish accents , vastly different , from the teuchters up north , to the chavvies in Edinburgh , from the borders over to galloway , from the west central belt to the kingdom of fife. I'm hoping to be in pubs in munich, stuttgart and cologne next summer , and of course the germans will have little difficulty picking out us Scots from the English. We are easily identifiable , as Scottish culture and emblems are world wide renowned , mixing with our fellow europeans while Bentley and dan dare will be easily identifiable in their English morris dancing costumes throwing chairs at old German ladies while singing two world wars and one World Cup. Well even strangers still called me Jock on occasion in Hampshire. So my accent down there was Scottish, my accent in Scotland, certainly initially, was at best Cosmopolitan but closer to Hampshire and I had to really put an effort in to avoid the f instead of the th on occasion. Having spent a year in Northumberland I understood Geordie pretty well but good not follow broad Northumbrian even as far south as Bedlington. My wife always knew when I had been working with Scots, my vowels changed and I speeded up. My accent is closer Edinburgh having spent two years there but my brother spent 4 years a Glasgow uni and has a much thicker West coast accent. To those dahn souf most Jocks sound the same and that is large unintelligible unless you slow down. the point is though sandy there is no such thing as a Scottish or English accent , they are many and varied , but the earlier point of not being able to pick English and Scottish out from each other in the pub will surely be shown to be untrue next summer. When you see someone with a kilt on or a Scotland top , is the earlier poster saying seriously foreigners think we are English ? FFS. Scottish emblems , whether whisky tartan , haggis bagpipes etc are renowned worldwide. If that not an expression of cultural and ethnic indentity, I don't know what fucking is. The German polis already have the word sent out to watch the English in ze fatherland next summer. Easily identifiable , can't fight , can't hold their drink , will nick anything that isn't nailed down , especially those unfortunates that come from the rougher cities like the scousers , and generally look poor and bedraggled . Coming from some of the most violent towns in Europes such as Preston and Bradford. the French have always said , we look to the Scottish for all our ideas of civilisation and sophistication .
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Post by thomas on Dec 4, 2023 15:37:21 GMT
I can't say I have read every page of this thread Dan so forgive me if I have missed anything. It feels like you are seeking to use the unusual constitutional position of the islands we (well most of us....) live in to create some sort of differential between English and British, exclude many British people (particularly if they have black skin) from your definition of Englishness and then seek to assign moral or legal rights to those you define as English. Reasonable summary? unreasonable. Dan is a proud Englishman . What's wrong with being English?
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Post by sheepy on Dec 4, 2023 15:38:59 GMT
The English have seen every political twist known, from invasions to civil wars, we might have an idea of what is right and what is plain wrong. We as a whole have probably been introduced to more shit from politics than most. Make of it what you will.
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Post by thomas on Dec 4, 2023 15:41:03 GMT
Joe Calzaghe wasn’t ethnic Welsh but was he Welsh? …for example ? How about Shirley Bassey? What’s she Welsh? the big problem through out this thread is people telling other people who and what they are. Surely you have to ask Shirley and Joe ?
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Post by thomas on Dec 4, 2023 15:42:33 GMT
The English have seen every political twist known, from invasions to civil wars, we might have an idea of what is right and what is plain wrong. We as a whole have probably been introduced to more shit from politics than most. Make of it what you will. we don't want to hear about the normans from you onion smelling baguette munching northern French sheepwash . I suspect your loyalty with be with les bleus rather than the morris dancers next summer.
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Post by sheepy on Dec 4, 2023 15:44:26 GMT
The English have seen every political twist known, from invasions to civil wars, we might have an idea of what is right and what is plain wrong. We as a whole have probably been introduced to more shit from politics than most. Make of it what you will. we don't want to hear about the normans from you onion smelling baguette munching northern French sheepwash . I suspect your loyalty with be with les bleus rather than the morris dancers next summer. When I said I was a Briton, I didn't mean Breton. Now you can look that up, so you can get some historical knowlege.
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Post by Bentley on Dec 4, 2023 16:23:25 GMT
I’m still unsure whether Calazaghe and Bassey are welsh . The Welsh seem to think so ( or do they ?). I need advice about me too . If my Grandfather was a sweaty then can I be English even if the other three Granparents were English afaik? If my Grandfather was a Masai warrior it may be obvious that I have non English blood . Would the English identifiers that would have hitherto accepted my Englishness now refute it ?
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2023 16:53:53 GMT
Well even strangers still called me Jock on occasion in Hampshire. So my accent down there was Scottish, my accent in Scotland, certainly initially, was at best Cosmopolitan but closer to Hampshire and I had to really put an effort in to avoid the f instead of the th on occasion. Having spent a year in Northumberland I understood Geordie pretty well but good not follow broad Northumbrian even as far south as Bedlington. My wife always knew when I had been working with Scots, my vowels changed and I speeded up. My accent is closer Edinburgh having spent two years there but my brother spent 4 years a Glasgow uni and has a much thicker West coast accent. To those dahn souf most Jocks sound the same and that is large unintelligible unless you slow down. the point is though sandy there is no such thing as a Scottish or English accent , they are many and varied , but the earlier point of not being able to pick English and Scottish out from each other in the pub will surely be shown to be untrue next summer. When you see someone with a kilt on or a Scotland top , is the earlier poster saying seriously foreigners think we are English ? FFS. Scottish emblems , whether whisky tartan , haggis bagpipes etc are renowned worldwide. If that not an expression of cultural and ethnic indentity, I don't know what fucking is. The German polis already have the word sent out to watch the English in ze fatherland next summer. Easily identifiable , can't fight , can't hold their drink , will nick anything that isn't nailed down , especially those unfortunates that come from the rougher cities like the scousers , and generally look poor and bedraggled . Coming from some of the most violent towns in Europes such as Preston and Bradford. the French have always said , we look to the Scottish for all our ideas of civilisation and sophistication . I am not sure wh said that accents could not be picked out in a pub I certainly did not. You can recognise many and varied Scottish accents I would say that most English people can pick out their own varied accents as well. How times change I can recall Celtic visiting St Jame's Park to play Newcastle and the battles that ensued, I was at St Johnstone v Aberdeen the same day as the Ibrox disaster and it was like internecine war. The one point you raise as regards the most violent cities are those where the ethnic English are pretty thin on the ground. Everyone looked to the Scots during the enlightenment I think those days are past.
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Post by sandypine on Dec 4, 2023 16:58:56 GMT
Joe Calzaghe wasn’t ethnic Welsh but was he Welsh? …for example ? How about Shirley Bassey? What’s she Welsh? Before 1968 she was Welsh, after 1968 she became an ethnic minority. Sometimes laws made and lauded as good result in divisions that did not exist
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 4, 2023 17:00:30 GMT
I’ll be responding later in more detail to Tommo’s post to correct some misunderstandings and a couple of questionable minor historical claims, but would first like to note that it’s taken a native from north of the border to unequivocably state with no ifs or buts that the English are an ethnic group. He puts to shame those ostensibly English persons who have appeared on this thread and quibbled about whether or not the English deserve that status and would appear to prefer a more ‘inclusive’ definition in order that others with little or no claim to Englishness can lay claim to our identity. I call them the proto-Quislings - they know who they are. Who has denied the existence of ethnic English people? I for one have not laid claim to being ethnically English (not fully at any rate) but that doesn't stop me from being English.
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 4, 2023 17:01:10 GMT
Joe Calzaghe wasn’t ethnic Welsh but was he Welsh? …for example ? How about Shirley Bassey? What’s she Welsh? Before 1968 she was Welsh, after 1968 she became an ethnic minority. Sometimes laws made and lauded as good result in divisions that did not exist Why can't she be both?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 17:01:44 GMT
Who has denied the existence of ethnic English people? ^^ The same account that said: "English isn't an ethnicity" on page one.
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 4, 2023 17:03:36 GMT
I'm willing to bet that all of those on this thread who have tried to deny me and others of immigrant descent our Englishness have also complained on these boards about immigrants and their descendants failing to integrate without a hint of irony.
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 4, 2023 17:04:47 GMT
Who has denied the existence of ethnic English people? ^^ The same account that said: "English isn't an ethnicity" on page one.
English isn't, not exclusively at any rate, but English ethnicity is. I'm not ethnically English but I'm English.
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