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Post by jonksy on Dec 20, 2023 6:04:41 GMT
I think we are the country in greatest risk of going low tech. You are just acting like a bad loser. I mean this effect they have discovered is as they admit, still highly experimental. They are no where near a working battery. This is more at the level of the guy who discovered lithium could be used in batteries. Lithium was not used in batteries for a long time after, because the power output was tiny. Over the years different refinements gradually increased performance and performance is still increasing today with lithium batteries. This though is a completely new path. Whether it yeilds a good battery, no one knows. It's high risk-high return research. The Chinese have always been low tech. Whatever knowledge they have garnered is by stealing it from the west. How many western companies have used China to produce their products only to lose their own markets by the Chinese cloned products which they themselves had invented and the Chinese stole. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 20, 2023 7:32:41 GMT
China does seem to have issues with creating new inventions and markets.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 20, 2023 14:20:47 GMT
I think we are the country in greatest risk of going low tech. You are just acting like a bad loser. I mean this effect they have discovered is as they admit, still highly experimental. They are no where near a working battery. This is more at the level of the guy who discovered lithium could be used in batteries. Lithium was not used in batteries for a long time after, because the power output was tiny. Over the years different refinements gradually increased performance and performance is still increasing today with lithium batteries. This though is a completely new path. Whether it yeilds a good battery, no one knows. It's high risk-high return research. The Chinese have always been low tech. Whatever knowledge they have garnered is by stealing it from the west. How many western companies have used China to produce their products only to lose their own markets by the Chinese cloned products which they themselves had invented and the Chinese stole. Loads of western firms set up in Shenzhen and they find the local business environment is a help to getting their ideas off the ground. It's more about speed. In that city everything happens much faster, and in the technology market, speed gets you ahead. According to accounts I have heard, they are all positive and the problems you think are a problem are simply not. They do fair business and everyone gets a fair cut. Rather than someone copying your idea, they will offer to help you, like provide the manufacturing services or whatever they do. The Chinese are a trustworthy society, far more so than what you experience in Britain today. You are at risk of projecting your experiences in the UK onto Chinese culture, but it simply isn't applicable. Like the Englishman used to say, my word is my bond, over in China you can expect the same. In a way China is more similar to how we used to be when we still had a thriving manufacturing industry and there were many small family run manufacturing firms, all doing good honest business with a good reputation. This evil dishonesty in business in this country is a relatively recent thing. Sure it existed in the past with the odd dodgy person, but we kind of knew who they were anyway and avoided them. Anyway, it is more basic than that. Those who set up in Shenzhen invariably do well and expand. Those who set up in the UK go bust and heavily in the red. Who really gives a shit if some guy is copying your product when you are making millions each week eh? How it works might be a bit of a mystery to those new to it, but really you just need to know "it just works". |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 20, 2023 15:17:39 GMT
The Chinese have always been low tech. Whatever knowledge they have garnered is by stealing it from the west. How many western companies have used China to produce their products only to lose their own markets by the Chinese cloned products which they themselves had invented and the Chinese stole. and they find the local business environment is a help to getting their ideas off the ground. It's more about speed. In that city everything happens much faster, and in the technology market, speed gets you ahead. According to accounts I have heard, they are all positive and the problems you think are a problem are simply not. They do fair business and everyone gets a fair cut. Rather than someone copying your idea, they will offer to help you, like provide the manufacturing services or whatever they do. The Chinese are a trustworthy society, far more so than what you experience in Britain today. You are at risk of projecting your experiences in the UK onto Chinese culture, but it simply isn't applicable. Like the Englishman used to say, my word is my bond, over in China you can expect the same. In a way China is more similar to how we used to be when we still had a thriving manufacturing industry and there were many small family run manufacturing firms, all doing good honest business with a good reputation. This evil dishonesty in business in this country is a relatively recent thing. Sure it existed in the past with the odd dodgy person, but we kind of knew who they were anyway and avoided them. Anyway, it is more basic than that. Those who set up in Shenzhen invariably do well and expand. Those who set up in the UK go bust and heavily in the red. Who really gives a shit if some guy is copying your product when you are making millions each week eh? How it works might be a bit of a mystery to those new to it, but really you just need to know "it just works". And got ripped off for their trouble BVL. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 20, 2023 15:32:55 GMT
Loads of western firms set up in Shenzhen and they find the local business environment is a help to getting their ideas off the ground. It's more about speed. In that city everything happens much faster, and in the technology market, speed gets you ahead. According to accounts I have heard, they are all positive and the problems you think are a problem are simply not. They do fair business and everyone gets a fair cut. Rather than someone copying your idea, they will offer to help you, like provide the manufacturing services or whatever they do. The Chinese are a trustworthy society, far more so than what you experience in Britain today. You are at risk of projecting your experiences in the UK onto Chinese culture, but it simply isn't applicable. Like the Englishman used to say, my word is my bond, over in China you can expect the same. In a way China is more similar to how we used to be when we still had a thriving manufacturing industry and there were many small family run manufacturing firms, all doing good honest business with a good reputation. This evil dishonesty in business in this country is a relatively recent thing. Sure it existed in the past with the odd dodgy person, but we kind of knew who they were anyway and avoided them. Anyway, it is more basic than that. Those who set up in Shenzhen invariably do well and expand. Those who set up in the UK go bust and heavily in the red. Who really gives a shit if some guy is copying your product when you are making millions each week eh? How it works might be a bit of a mystery to those new to it, but really you just need to know "it just works". And got ripped off for their trouble BVL. They didn't look ripped off to me. They were just working to build their companies and were very cheerful. Of course one must have an understanding of the Chinese culture and ways business works in that country. You have to fit in, but it is no worry as you fit into a logical and sensible system, better than what you are used to back at home. For example , one example given of how things are very strange in that city is it can take one hour from the post sent to the post being delivered. This is unheard of in the UK. We wait up to 2 weeks and if at all.
Also with copying, well that is handled differently. Lets say you want an injection moulded box to house your product in. You go to the manufacturer and you decide if you want to pay the full price, or if you want to pay a lower price for the mould and then allow the manufacturer to use that for other customers, so by sharing you can do it cheaper. You can also be pretty damn sure that if you go for the full price they will not share it with other customers because firms have high standards. Everything a firm does is to please the customer. The customer is king in China, and when you sell the product you must serve your customer kings in the same way. Do it like that and you will make a ton of cash. The Chinese customer won't buy from dodgy firms. You run a good business and you get much customer loyalty. These firms that get ripped probably tried to rip them.
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Post by jonksy on Dec 20, 2023 15:39:55 GMT
And got ripped off for their trouble BVL. They didn't look ripped off to me. They were just working to build their companies and were very cheerful. Of course one must have an understanding of the Chinese culture and ways business works in that country. You have to fit in, but it is no worry as you fit into a logical and sensible system, better than what you are used to back at home. For example , one example given of how things are very strange in that city is it can take one hour from the post sent to the post being delivered. This is unheard of in the UK. We wait up to 2 weeks and if at all.
Also with copying, well that is handled differently. Lets say you want an injection moulded box to house your product in. You go to the manufacturer and you decide if you want to pay the full price, or if you want to pay a lower price for the mould and then allow the manufacturer to use that for other customers, so by sharing you can do it cheaper. You can also be pretty damn sure that if you go for the full price they will not share it with other customers because firms have high standards. Everything a firm does is to please the customer. The customer is king in China, and when you sell the product you must serve your customer kings in the same way. Do it like that and you will make a ton of cash. The Chinese customer won't buy from dodgy firms. You run a good business and you get much customer loyalty. These firms that get ripped probably tried to rip them.
Maybe you should open your eyes to what the Chinese are really like BVL. They rip off western technology and patents mean nothing to them. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 20, 2023 16:47:53 GMT
They didn't look ripped off to me. They were just working to build their companies and were very cheerful. Of course one must have an understanding of the Chinese culture and ways business works in that country. You have to fit in, but it is no worry as you fit into a logical and sensible system, better than what you are used to back at home. For example , one example given of how things are very strange in that city is it can take one hour from the post sent to the post being delivered. This is unheard of in the UK. We wait up to 2 weeks and if at all.
Also with copying, well that is handled differently. Lets say you want an injection moulded box to house your product in. You go to the manufacturer and you decide if you want to pay the full price, or if you want to pay a lower price for the mould and then allow the manufacturer to use that for other customers, so by sharing you can do it cheaper. You can also be pretty damn sure that if you go for the full price they will not share it with other customers because firms have high standards. Everything a firm does is to please the customer. The customer is king in China, and when you sell the product you must serve your customer kings in the same way. Do it like that and you will make a ton of cash. The Chinese customer won't buy from dodgy firms. You run a good business and you get much customer loyalty. These firms that get ripped probably tried to rip them.
Maybe you should open your eyes to what the Chinese are really like BVL. They rip off western technology and patents mean nothing to them. It does not really matter though. You set up a decent firm with a really smart product and whoosh, you get everyone placing orders for it and you get known as a top innovator. Later on some backstreet crap firm who can't think up anything original decides to rip you off. Going on a report recently of this, the backstreet crap firm copied the entire thing, right down to the instruction manual word for word. Obviously this was a safe option for them because being rather stupid, if they had written their own it would be wrong and the customer would notice. The original firm was German and the product was an industrial wireless temperature sensor product.
So what would happen there? First you have to realise the Chinese market is very intelligent compared to our own. They would know the original compared to the copy. They would maybe see the two of them for sale together. You might even see a price difference between the two of three times. One school of thought says the customer would always buy the cheaper, but would you really do this. Lets say you owned an oil refinery and you need these devices on your various tanks. Are you really going to get such cheap things from a scammer who copied a German firm, known to be high quality? Would the cheapskate customers even have bought from you in the first place or maybe bought a different rip-off product? This is indeed why the scam product is often seen selling so much cheaper. The market is hard to fool. If they had the low morals to rip the German firm off then what substandard parts would they use to rip their customers off? Putting this point out the Eastern crowd the other day the responses did seem to indicate that such a scammer was of little concern, and they would still buy the original.
You know what our problem is. We Brits live in this fairy land of zero risk. We want the world to be all nice and fluffy and idealistic.
With risk comes resilience. The market learns to be smarter in its buying decisions. China is a place of fewer legalistic rules but very Chinese. Chinese culture says treat your fellow people with respect. It's close to the Christian culture in some ways.
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Post by jonksy on Dec 20, 2023 17:29:49 GMT
Maybe you should open your eyes to what the Chinese are really like BVL. They rip off western technology and patents mean nothing to them. It does not really matter though. You set up a decent firm with a really smart product and whoosh, you get everyone placing orders for it and you get known as a top innovator. Later on some backstreet crap firm who can't think up anything original decides to rip you off. Going on a report recently of this, the backstreet crap firm copied the entire thing, right down to the instruction manual word for word. Obviously this was a safe option for them because being rather stupid, if they had written their own it would be wrong and the customer would notice. The original firm was German and the product was an industrial wireless temperature sensor product.
So what would happen there? First you have to realise the Chinese market is very intelligent compared to our own. They would know the original compared to the copy. They would maybe see the two of them for sale together. You might even see a price difference between the two of three times. One school of thought says the customer would always buy the cheaper, but would you really do this. Lets say you owned an oil refinery and you need these devices on your various tanks. Are you really going to get such cheap things from a scammer who copied a German firm, known to be high quality? Would the cheapskate customers even have bought from you in the first place or maybe bought a different rip-off product? This is indeed why the scam product is often seen selling so much cheaper. The market is hard to fool. If they had the low morals to rip the German firm off then what substandard parts would they use to rip their customers off? Putting this point out the Eastern crowd the other day the responses did seem to indicate that such a scammer was of little concern, and they would still buy the original.
You know what our problem is. We Brits live in this fairy land of zero risk. We want the world to be all nice and fluffy and idealistic.
With risk comes resilience. The market learns to be smarter in its buying decisions. China is a place of fewer legalistic rules but very Chinese. Chinese culture says treat your fellow people with respect. It's close to the Christian culture in some ways.
Do a bit of research for yourself BVL there are dozens of sites with info on cheap chinese clones. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 20, 2023 17:52:35 GMT
It does not really matter though. You set up a decent firm with a really smart product and whoosh, you get everyone placing orders for it and you get known as a top innovator. Later on some backstreet crap firm who can't think up anything original decides to rip you off. Going on a report recently of this, the backstreet crap firm copied the entire thing, right down to the instruction manual word for word. Obviously this was a safe option for them because being rather stupid, if they had written their own it would be wrong and the customer would notice. The original firm was German and the product was an industrial wireless temperature sensor product.
So what would happen there? First you have to realise the Chinese market is very intelligent compared to our own. They would know the original compared to the copy. They would maybe see the two of them for sale together. You might even see a price difference between the two of three times. One school of thought says the customer would always buy the cheaper, but would you really do this. Lets say you owned an oil refinery and you need these devices on your various tanks. Are you really going to get such cheap things from a scammer who copied a German firm, known to be high quality? Would the cheapskate customers even have bought from you in the first place or maybe bought a different rip-off product? This is indeed why the scam product is often seen selling so much cheaper. The market is hard to fool. If they had the low morals to rip the German firm off then what substandard parts would they use to rip their customers off? Putting this point out the Eastern crowd the other day the responses did seem to indicate that such a scammer was of little concern, and they would still buy the original.
You know what our problem is. We Brits live in this fairy land of zero risk. We want the world to be all nice and fluffy and idealistic.
With risk comes resilience. The market learns to be smarter in its buying decisions. China is a place of fewer legalistic rules but very Chinese. Chinese culture says treat your fellow people with respect. It's close to the Christian culture in some ways.
Do a bit of research for yourself BVL there are dozens of sites with info on cheap chinese clones. I regularly see what is on the Chinese market because it is where I shop. The rule of thumb is you get what you pay for. It's an interest of mine in fact looking at product design and who sells what and what it looks like from the inside and how it performs. For example those firms like Hewlett and Packard sold some damn expensive test equipment, but looking inside the quality is second to none and the accuracy is extremely good. You regularly get machines made in the 1970s that outperform modern plastic crap sold a lot cheaper now. Besides a bit of copying is not a bad thing anyway. The scenario which is far worse is a world full of what they call patent trolls. You find you can't make a damn thing without stepping on someone's intellectual property, so technology itself grinds to a halt.
IP in China is a transitory thing. It's only hot for a bit and if you want to to stay hot you need a full-time R & D department to keep on bashing new advances out, and then you are the jaguar that none of the other animals can hope to catch. No one really invents something and then sits on their arses over there. They keep on inventing. It's like the firm CATL. It is number one now, but it knows even if rests for a couple of years other firms will develop better batteries and overtake, so they have to keep running to survive. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Dec 20, 2023 18:12:48 GMT
I have suggested to you several limes that you should visit China. Then see what it is really like. The other day I got invited to Shanghai by my brother's wife, who has family over there. In due course, when it is convenient for the three of us, we will endeavour to visit. As I have been saying to you for a while, I quite fancy going over there, and Shanghai is a top place to visit. When/if you do try to see what it is like, not just what they want you to tell them. That might just open your eyes.............. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 20, 2023 18:17:25 GMT
The other day I got invited to Shanghai by my brother's wife, who has family over there. In due course, when it is convenient for the three of us, we will endeavour to visit. As I have been saying to you for a while, I quite fancy going over there, and Shanghai is a top place to visit. When/if you do try to see what it is like, not just what they want you to tell them. That might just open your eyes.............. You make a wrong assumption there. I get views from all sorts of people. |
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Post by besoeker3 on Dec 20, 2023 20:36:36 GMT
When/if you do try to see what it is like, not just what they want you to tell them. That might just open your eyes.............. You make a wrong assumption there. I get views from all sorts of people. I have been there. You haven't. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 20, 2023 20:40:51 GMT
You make a wrong assumption there. I get views from all sorts of people. I have been there. You haven't. So tell me what am I going to see then. Where did you go to when you were there? |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 11, 2024 23:56:48 GMT
Here is a new bit of tech which I consider novel enough to publish here. The Saudis are having trouble with terrorists sending drones to destroy their oil refineries. After that they did some shopping in China and this is what they bought.
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Jan 23, 2024 23:09:04 GMT
Here is another pretty good advance in my view. It is by a chap who calls himself Jim Fan, but like many Chinese, they adopt as western first name, so he was once Linxi Fan. His story is he worked at Baidu AI Labs and Open AI as an intern and before that he got his PhD at Stanford Vision Lab, advised by Prof. Fei-Fei Li. So basically a Chinese chap who is over in the US doing AI.
This is remarkable for the following reason. For a long time now the sages of bullshit, like those who do those grand talks in a know-it-all fashion say, well AI is OK for some things, but it is not human intelligence because unlike AI machines, humans actually live in the real world and that is how they learn, where training AI in the real world is a cumbersome thing. Or is it? This man decided not to listen, and instead he put his AI bot into an artificial world, namely Minecraft. How can the grand sages of bullshit know this is bullshit? Well they don't cos they have never tried it before surmising it was a waste of time. It helps not to listen sometimes. Take a look at the results.
If you would like to know more, this is his website.
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