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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 16:38:30 GMT
Really? That is not a winning argument when he has actually posted evidence, whilst you have posted none in refutation of it. What evidence has he posted FFS? The ONLY evidence available is from opinion polling by long established and respected polling organisations. It is now two years since any poll showed a margin in favour of STAY OUT, and since that time there have been over 100 different opinion polls carried out. You cannot dispute such evidence, polls these days are often not accurate, but they are never consistently that far off the mark. As stated previously, nothing will alter for the time been, but if public opinion continues the same way, then eventually we will have another referendum, its guaranteed. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 4, 2023 17:08:20 GMT
What evidence has he posted FFS? The ONLY evidence available is from opinion polling by long established and respected polling organisations. It is now two years since any poll showed a margin in favour of STAY OUT, and since that time there have been over 100 different opinion polls carried out. You cannot dispute such evidence, polls these days are often not accurate, but they are never consistently that far off the mark. As stated previously, nothing will alter for the time been, but if public opinion continues the same way, then eventually we will have another referendum, its guaranteed. All these polls are fixed fiddles as well you know. I don't know one solitary leaver who has ever been polled by these tossers who have an axe to grind. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 17:10:30 GMT
When it comes to corruption, you only need look at the UK government - Conservative ministers awarding millions of pounds worth of contracts for PPE to companies with other Tory MPs as directors and major shareholders, all done without any tendering process. Probably the worst case of Tory corruption was the case of the Sheffield steel company ForgeMaster, where by a major Tory donor ( Andrew Cook ) who just happens to own a steel works, objected to an £80 million loan to his competitor. Withdrawing the loan was one of the first things David Cameron did after becoming Prime Minister. That loan would have enabled ForgeMaster to purchase equipment to then tender for work in the nuclear power station industry. Horseshit - Andrew Cooks company was not in competition with Forgemasters, all he did was warn that the proposed loan would be illegal under EU Competition Law. A fact that Danny Alexander and Vince Cable (both LibDems) agreed with - and as they had responsibility for making the decision, not Cameron, that was that. Utter Bullshit, in the original story in the BBC News link (below) absolutely no mention what so ever of breaking EU rules, and if the loan had of broken any EU rules, then the Labour government would never have agreed the loan in the first place. The cancelation of the loan was all about spending cuts, and nothing else, the Tories doing what they do best, crippling the future prospects of a British company to save money. The Tory donor who "suggested" to Cameron that the loan should be cancelled was the largest Tory party donor in Yorkshire, the entire thing stinks to high heavan. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-10704471 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 17:46:00 GMT
Again, where is your evidence that refutes it? And the kinnock clans numbers were reduced by 1 yesterday so that is another remain vote you have lost. Where? You haven't supplied any. Any evidence to refute the evidence provided by Sid would lay at least the foundation stones of intelligent debate. Shoving your head up your arse whilst shouting "bollocks" might be highly entertaining for your preferred audience, but it wins no debates in the eyes of intelligent people. Even intelligent people on your own side are likely to be quietly embarrassed enough by your performance to intervene with a more intelligent and evidence-based response to save your blushes which you can then rapidly agree with. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 18:01:26 GMT
The ONLY evidence available is from opinion polling by long established and respected polling organisations. It is now two years since any poll showed a margin in favour of STAY OUT, and since that time there have been over 100 different opinion polls carried out. You cannot dispute such evidence, polls these days are often not accurate, but they are never consistently that far off the mark. As stated previously, nothing will alter for the time been, but if public opinion continues the same way, then eventually we will have another referendum, its guaranteed. All these polls are fixed fiddles as well you know. I don't know one solitary leaver who has ever been polled by these tossers who have an axe to grind. I know of no Remainer who has been either. And I have never been asked for my political opinions on anything by pollsters. Thing is though I understand what you are clearly not getting. Polling relies on sounding out a representative sample of a few thousand people who are a reliable cross section of an electorate of millions. So the vast majority of us will never get asked. So the notion that because none of your mates down the pub were asked, means that the poll is obvious shit because you dont like its findings really shows how lacking in intelligence you appear to be. Mind you, if it was a poll in the Daily Mail of Daily Mail readers, and it consequently said what you wanted to hear, you'd have posted a link to it by now. Because you are never shy of quoting polling evidence if it says what you want it to. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 4, 2023 18:38:55 GMT
All these polls are fixed fiddles as well you know. I don't know one solitary leaver who has ever been polled by these tossers who have an axe to grind. I know of no Remainer who has been either. And I have never been asked for my political opinions on anything by pollsters. Thing is though I understand what you are clearly not getting. Polling relies on sounding out a representative sample of a few thousand people who are a reliable cross section of an electorate of millions. So the vast majority of us will never get asked. So the notion that because none of your mates down the pub were asked, means that the poll is obvious shit because you dont like its findings really shows how lacking in intelligence you appear to be. Mind you, if it was a poll in the Daily Mail of Daily Mail readers, and it consequently said what you wanted to hear, you'd have posted a link to it by now. Because you are never shy of quoting polling evidence if it says what you want it to. You do know that you can ask to be polled don't you? No leaver would ever dream of asking these shysters and liars. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2023 19:29:40 GMT
I know of no Remainer who has been either. And I have never been asked for my political opinions on anything by pollsters. Thing is though I understand what you are clearly not getting. Polling relies on sounding out a representative sample of a few thousand people who are a reliable cross section of an electorate of millions. So the vast majority of us will never get asked. So the notion that because none of your mates down the pub were asked, means that the poll is obvious shit because you dont like its findings really shows how lacking in intelligence you appear to be. Mind you, if it was a poll in the Daily Mail of Daily Mail readers, and it consequently said what you wanted to hear, you'd have posted a link to it by now. Because you are never shy of quoting polling evidence if it says what you want it to. You do know that you can ask to be polled don't you? No leaver would ever dream of asking these shysters and liars. Then why havent you asked? Fact is polls are calibrated to be representative samples regardless of whether you put yourself forward or not. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 4, 2023 22:38:11 GMT
Horseshit - Andrew Cooks company was not in competition with Forgemasters, all he did was warn that the proposed loan would be illegal under EU Competition Law. A fact that Danny Alexander and Vince Cable (both LibDems) agreed with - and as they had responsibility for making the decision, not Cameron, that was that. Utter Bullshit, in the original story in the BBC News link (below) absolutely no mention what so ever of breaking EU rules, and if the loan had of broken any EU rules, then the Labour government would never have agreed the loan in the first place. The cancelation of the loan was all about spending cuts, and nothing else, the Tories doing what they do best, crippling the future prospects of a British company to save money. The Tory donor who "suggested" to Cameron that the loan should be cancelled was the largest Tory party donor in Yorkshire, the entire thing stinks to high heavan. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-10704471Sid, this is all documented. You cannot rewrite history..  |
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Post by Vinny on Dec 4, 2023 22:43:34 GMT
What evidence has he posted FFS? The ONLY evidence available is from opinion polling by long established and respected polling organisations. It is now two years since any poll showed a margin in favour of STAY OUT, and since that time there have been over 100 different opinion polls carried out. You cannot dispute such evidence, polls these days are often not accurate, but they are never consistently that far off the mark. As stated previously, nothing will alter for the time been, but if public opinion continues the same way, then eventually we will have another referendum, its guaranteed. You are deluding yourself. Polls are irrelevant. You couldn't win when we had a rebate and opt outs, there's no way we'd get the same terms if we went back in. We'd have to pay £20+bn a year, hand over sovereignty to the Commission, participate in Schengen, and join the Euro. Not only that we'd have to tear up our new FTAs, and be worse off economically. Anyone who thinks we're going back in any time soon, is away with the fairies. Besides the EU is going through a treaty change process right now. Best to see what it turns into and judge what it becomes. Vetoes appear to be on their way out.
This one size fits none farce may get even worse to the point where even you wouldn't want to go back.
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Post by jonksy on Dec 4, 2023 22:43:54 GMT
You do know that you can ask to be polled don't you? No leaver would ever dream of asking these shysters and liars. Fact is polls are calibrated to be representative samples regardless of whether you put yourself forward or not. Because it is all bollocks. There is only one poll that counts. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 5:08:35 GMT
Then why havent you asked? Fact is polls are calibrated to be representative samples regardless of whether you put yourself forward or not. Because it is all bollocks. There is only one poll that counts. Unless it is a poll you like the look of in the Daily Mail, then you devote an entire thread to it. The relevance of polls of course is that they are a snapshot of what people are actually thinking. No sensible politician ever ignores them for long, because their success in getting elected depends upon them knowing what people are thinking and responding to that. Calling them bollocks because they dont think the way you want them to is not a strategy that wins any debates. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 5, 2023 6:16:57 GMT
Because it is all bollocks. There is only one poll that counts. Unless it is a poll you like the look of in the Daily Mail, then you devote an entire thread to it. The relevance of polls of course is that they are a snapshot of what people are actually thinking. No sensible politician ever ignores them for long, because their success in getting elected depends upon them knowing what people are thinking and responding to that. Calling them bollocks because they dont think the way you want them to is not a strategy that wins any debates. You and fiddles converted the thread into yet another attack on the source. If you had read the original op you woyld see this is about the humiliation of the EUSSR. This is a favourite trick of you lefties where you try and detract from the subject on hand. |
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Post by Vinny on Dec 5, 2023 6:44:31 GMT
I have provided the ONS trade stats showing that inflation adjusted, we're a lot better off now than we were in 2015. Our vote for independence has had a massive effect on the economy, mostly beneficial.
In 2015 we exported £223.3 billion to the EU.
Last year we exported £340 billion to the EU.
Inflation adjusted we'd have sold £297 billion to the EU if we'd stayed members.
It wasn't working.
It was resulting in industrial decline and poverty migration. Membership had a very detrimental effect on the majority of the country.
Why do you think that Labour's heartlands voted leave? Once the industrial powerhouse of Britain, devastated by EU membership. Manufacturer after manufacturer ditched us for cheaper parts of the EU.
Our currency was overvalued. And that was a serious impediment not only on exports, but on domestic sales as imports were cheaper than domestic products.
The hard left blame Thatcher for everything, but it is the EEC and the EU which exposed our manufacturers to economic Darwinism. These problems existed when James Callaghan was PM, when Harold Wilson was PM, and when Edward Heath was PM.
A trade surplus in 1972 had become a monster deficit by 1974. The Europhiles said it would get better just give it a chance.
Well we did, but it got worse and then they created the EU, which we had not voted to join. And for 23 years we were denied a say, so wait your turn.
We've been out for three years.
You've another seventeen to go.
Then a generation will have passed.
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Post by oracle75 on Dec 5, 2023 10:25:10 GMT
For godssake Vinny.
Every developed country is better off if you use just GDP numbers.
Comparing now to nearly ten years ago is ridiculous, considering how they dealt with Covid and Ukraine plus interest rates and lately inflation brought on by all of the above.
I would think places like Tonga and the Seychelles can boast a better GDP than ten years ago based solely on tourism.
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Post by see2 on Dec 5, 2023 10:25:56 GMT
I have provided the ONS trade stats showing that inflation adjusted, we're a lot better off now than we were in 2015. Our vote for independence has had a massive effect on the economy, mostly beneficial. In 2015 we exported £223.3 billion to the EU. Last year we exported £340 billion to the EU. Inflation adjusted we'd have sold £297 billion to the EU if we'd stayed members. It wasn't working. It was resulting in industrial decline and poverty migration. Membership had a very detrimental effect on the majority of the country. Why do you think that Labour's heartlands voted leave? Once the industrial powerhouse of Britain, devastated by EU membership. Manufacturer after manufacturer ditched us for cheaper parts of the EU. Our currency was overvalued. And that was a serious impediment not only on exports, but on domestic sales as imports were cheaper than domestic products. The hard left blame Thatcher for everything, but it is the EEC and the EU which exposed our manufacturers to economic Darwinism. These problems existed when James Callaghan was PM, when Harold Wilson was PM, and when Edward Heath was PM. A trade surplus in 1972 had become a monster deficit by 1974. The Europhiles said it would get better just give it a chance. Well we did, but it got worse and then they created the EU, which we had not voted to join. And for 23 years we were denied a say, so wait your turn. We've been out for three years. You've another seventeen to go. Then a generation will have passed. It would be good if you would stop your one eyed whinging and tried being OBJECTIVE for a while. Then readers and yourself just might get an inkling as to the truth of the matter. Your open handed Avatar gives a false picture of yourself. |
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