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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 15:09:39 GMT
..still pushing the 2 state solution. Is there any other solution, short of making the region either wholly Palestinian or wholly Israeli territory? You can't have a two state solution, when one of the states (Palestine) wants to kill all the Jews in the other, (Israel).
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Post by see2 on Nov 28, 2023 15:09:46 GMT
Given that you accept Hamas committed a war crime, what do you suppose Israel's response should have been? Yes, get Hamas but not by bombing the whole of the Gaza Strip killing 10s of thousands of innocent civilians, Israel have the most up to date weapons and 'spy' network in the world. I have answered you question will you now have the decency to answer mine. Would you have supported the British state indiscriminately bombing Northern Ireland to root out the IRA? I don't think many people have rejoiced in the deaths in Gaza, just as few got any enjoyment in the deaths of German civilians in the Dresden carpet bombing, but the British, like the Israelis, were fighting for the freedom to exist. On reflection I think that neither bombing is correctly deemed genoside, but both are horrendous and are almost impossible for most people to justify. The bottom line for me is, do the Israelis have the right to fight for their existence? The answer to your question is yes, if the IRA were a threat to the existence of the British. They are not nor would they ever likely be, which means your question doesn't apply in this case.
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Post by see2 on Nov 28, 2023 15:15:10 GMT
Is there any other solution, short of making the region either wholly Palestinian or wholly Israeli territory? You can't have a two state solution, when one of the states (Palestine) wants to kill all the Jews in the other, (Israel). The final outcome of the present situation could either change minds for the better or perhaps kick the two state solution idea into the long grass for a very very long time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 15:15:31 GMT
Utter nonsense in my opinion. So you are confirming, in your mind, that being against Israel is anti-Semitic, that is what your answer is saying. Stop making stuff up about my mind. It does no one any good. I'll post words which I use to try to represent my position. Don't try to strawman me, I'm far too forum savvy to be tripped up by your utter nonsense.
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 28, 2023 15:22:36 GMT
So you are confirming, in your mind, that being against Israel is anti-Semitic, that is what your answer is saying. Stop making stuff up about my mind. It does no one any good. I'll post words which I use to try to represent my position. Don't try to strawman me, I'm far too forum savvy to be tripped up by your utter nonsense. He does it all the time, he tries to tell you what you think you are thinking.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 17:06:04 GMT
Hamas is a terrorist group, and heavily funded by very wealthy and influential people, they don't roam the desert wearing robes and flip flops hiding in caves, they are a highly organised 'intelligent' outfit, and a force to be reckoned with ..... or don't you know that? They still don't have a weapons advantage over Israel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 17:08:17 GMT
We have been at war in one form or another with Muslims states for hundreds of years, usually in the form of conquests and latterly and the search for oil. The two state solutions all proffered were to Israel's advantage and Palestinian disadvantage. Violence begets violence and I can see a lot more 'terrorists' being born across the Muslim countries because of Israel's genocide and our part in it. Islamic armies, 'doing God's work' have invaded country after country ever since the 7th century. Even to the extent of taking young Christian males from their families, converting them to Islam and training them as soldiers, the Mamluk, to fight for the spread of Islam. The Muslim raiders from North Africa captured a claimed 1 million Europeans and sold them in the Ottoman Slave Markets. Ended by the French conquest of Algeria. When the Ottoman rulers freed the Jews from the chains of Dhimmitude in 1858, that made Jews in Palestine equal under the law to the Arabs, they unwittingly lit the blue touch paper of the Arab hatred of and conflict with the Jews. If you want to understand the conflicts between the Arabs and the Jews you need to start from that period of history. Yup, Muslims bad, we good.π
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 28, 2023 17:11:36 GMT
What advantage did the Jews get? The blue and by the way stop calling them Jews, that's anti-Semitic, it's Israel. Twice the amount of land for half the number of people. No its not Israel - that hadn't been created when the Partition Plan was proposed. With regards to the land area, the palestinians had already been given the whole of Transjordan which comprised of over 50% of the territory. You are arguing over scraps.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 17:12:50 GMT
Yes, get Hamas but not by bombing the whole of the Gaza Strip killing 10s of thousands of innocent civilians, Israel have the most up to date weapons and 'spy' network in the world. I have answered you question will you now have the decency to answer mine. Would you have supported the British state indiscriminately bombing Northern Ireland to root out the IRA? I don't think many people have rejoiced in the deaths in Gaza, just as few got any enjoyment in the deaths of German civilians in the Dresden carpet bombing, but the British, like the Israelis, were fighting for the freedom to exist. On reflection I think that neither bombing is correctly deemed genoside, but both are horrendous and are almost impossible for most people to justify. The bottom line for me is, do the Israelis have the right to fight for their existence? The answer to your question is yes, if the IRA were a threat to the existence of the British. They are not nor would they ever likely be, which means your question doesn't apply in this case. You are quoting WW2, as others have done, as to what the allies did to Germany, appalling as it was but you seem to miss the parallels. Germany was the invading and occupying force in WW2, Israel are the invading and occupying force in Gaza and the West Bank. Spot the contradiction in thinking?
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Post by sheepy on Nov 28, 2023 17:15:16 GMT
I don't think many people have rejoiced in the deaths in Gaza, just as few got any enjoyment in the deaths of German civilians in the Dresden carpet bombing, but the British, like the Israelis, were fighting for the freedom to exist. On reflection I think that neither bombing is correctly deemed genoside, but both are horrendous and are almost impossible for most people to justify. The bottom line for me is, do the Israelis have the right to fight for their existence? The answer to your question is yes, if the IRA were a threat to the existence of the British. They are not nor would they ever likely be, which means your question doesn't apply in this case. You are quoting WW2, as others have done, as to what the allies did to Germany, appalling as it was but you seem to miss the parallels. Germany was the invading and occupying force in WW2, Israel are the invading and occupying force in Gaza and the West Bank. Spot the contradiction in thinking? I am not taking any notice, if we are talking about who is killing who at a rate of knots the Israelis are up about 100 to 1.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 17:15:22 GMT
So you are confirming, in your mind, that being against Israel is anti-Semitic, that is what your answer is saying. Stop making stuff up about my mind. It does no one any good. I'll post words which I use to try to represent my position. Don't try to strawman me, I'm far too forum savvy to be tripped up by your utter nonsense. I said "Anti-Israel is not anti-Semitism no matter how hard people want you to believe it is." You said "Utter nonsense in my opinion". Therefore you believe it is anti-Semitic to call out Israel's crimes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 17:17:19 GMT
The blue and by the way stop calling them Jews, that's anti-Semitic, it's Israel. Twice the amount of land for half the number of people. No its not Israel - that hadn't been created when the Partition Plan was proposed. With regards to the land area, the palestinians had already been given the whole of Transjordan which comprised of over 50% of the territory. You are arguing over scraps. Scraps is all the Palestinians were being 'offered'. Why change maps?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2023 17:18:24 GMT
You are quoting WW2, as others have done, as to what the allies did to Germany, appalling as it was but you seem to miss the parallels. Germany was the invading and occupying force in WW2, Israel are the invading and occupying force in Gaza and the West Bank. Spot the contradiction in thinking? I am not taking any notice, if we are talking about who is killing who at a rate of knots the Israelis are up about 100 to 1. And you are happy with an occupying force slaughtering the original inhabitants.
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Post by sheepy on Nov 28, 2023 17:21:35 GMT
I am not taking any notice, if we are talking about who is killing who at a rate of knots the Israelis are up about 100 to 1. And you are happy with an occupying force slaughtering the original inhabitants. What would you think is the best course of action?
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 28, 2023 17:24:12 GMT
No its not Israel - that hadn't been created when the Partition Plan was proposed. With regards to the land area, the palestinians had already been given the whole of Transjordan which comprised of over 50% of the territory. You are arguing over scraps. Scraps is all the Palestinians were being 'offered'. Why change maps? So if 75% of Palestine is not enough how much should they have had? - or wont you be happy until all Jews are removed from Palestine as they have throughout the rest of the Middle East?
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