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Post by Orac on Dec 1, 2023 18:38:58 GMT
Indeed - and why do you think that is? Might 75 years of experience have something to do with it? Most certainly, but the current situation is that no-one wants peace. The enmity is so deep now that each side just wants to annihilate the other and nothing else will satisfy them. My reading suggests that the Israelis would be happy enough with an independent gaza-like sector, so long as there were no tunnels, no Jewish barbecues and no rockets. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2023 18:47:10 GMT
that it’s the Palestinians fault for everything It's probably the best default position to take, all things considered. |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 1, 2023 18:54:02 GMT
Most certainly, but the current situation is that no-one wants peace. The enmity is so deep now that each side just wants to annihilate the other and nothing else will satisfy them. My reading suggests that the Israelis would be happy enough with an independent gaza-like sector, so long as there were no tunnels, no Jewish barbecues and no rockets. Netanyahu says that he is going to block a Palestinian state, and that even entering peace talks would result in a threat to security, so no, I don't think that the Israeli government would tolerate an independent gaza-like sector. That is clearly not what he wants. "The Israeli Prime Minister is reported saying that if re-elected he would not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state and argued that entering peace talks in the hope of achieving a two-state solution would result in a threat to security." www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231128-netanyahu-only-i-can-block-a-palestinian-state/ |
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Post by Orac on Dec 1, 2023 18:58:08 GMT
My reading suggests that the Israelis would be happy enough with an independent gaza-like sector, so long as there were no tunnels, no Jewish barbecues and no rockets. Netanyahu says that he is going to block a Palestinian state, and that even entering peace talks would result in a threat to security, so no, I don't think that the Israeli government would tolerate an independent gaza-like sector. That is clearly not what he wants. You misunderstand what i'm saying. There is no objection so long as x,y, z The thing is, similar has been tried before and there were tunnels, killing sprees, rockets etc etc. If there are no killing sprees and no rockets for (say) ten years, Israel wouldn't be able to stop it in any case. It's a fake issue. |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 1, 2023 19:04:52 GMT
Netanyahu says that he is going to block a Palestinian state, and that even entering peace talks would result in a threat to security, so no, I don't think that the Israeli government would tolerate an independent gaza-like sector. That is clearly not what he wants. You misunderstand what i'm saying. There is no objection so long as x,y, z The thing is, similar has been tried before and there were tunnels, killing sprees, rockets etc etc. If there are no killing sprees and no rockets for (say) ten years, Israel wouldn't be able to stop it in any case. It's a fake issue. I think that both sides probably recognise that they will never be assured of peace, at least not in the foreseeable future unless by some feat of outside intervention. There is such an absence of trust or goodwill between the parties, made worse by the events of October 7th up to now, that both sides are convinced the only way to ensure lasting peace is to annihilate the other. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 1, 2023 19:13:38 GMT
You misunderstand what i'm saying. There is no objection so long as x,y, z The thing is, similar has been tried before and there were tunnels, killing sprees, rockets etc etc. If there are no killing sprees and no rockets for (say) ten years, Israel wouldn't be able to stop it in any case. It's a fake issue. I think that both sides probably recognise that they will never be assured of peace, at least not in the foreseeable future unless by some feat of outside intervention. There is such an absence of trust or goodwill between the parties, made worse by the events of October 7th up to now, that both sides are convinced the only way to ensure lasting peace is to annihilate the other. Then you are more or less accepting the logic of the Israelis |
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Post by wapentake on Dec 1, 2023 20:20:32 GMT
that it’s the Palestinians fault for everything It's probably the best default position to take, all things considered. Whatever the case it’s neither true nor fair. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 1, 2023 22:29:55 GMT
My reading suggests that the Israelis would be happy enough with an independent gaza-like sector, so long as there were no tunnels, no Jewish barbecues and no rockets. Netanyahu says that he is going to block a Palestinian state, and that even entering peace talks would result in a threat to security, so no, I don't think that the Israeli government would tolerate an independent gaza-like sector. That is clearly not what he wants. "The Israeli Prime Minister is reported saying that if re-elected he would not allow the establishment of a Palestinian state and argued that entering peace talks in the hope of achieving a two-state solution would result in a threat to security." www.middleeastmonitor.com/20231128-netanyahu-only-i-can-block-a-palestinian-state/Netanyahu came to power precisely because the Palestinians kept rejecting the peace process and starting intifadas and turning Gaza into a base to attack Israel. The Israeli people turned away from those politicians trying for peace to those that prioritised security. Anyway Netanyahu is yesterdays man - he will soon be gone and a new generation will take over. Whether, after 7/10, they will be any more inclined to a peace deal is anyones guess. |
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Post by wapentake on Dec 1, 2023 22:58:02 GMT
Looks like Biden is wanting a different path from Netanyahu and isn’t happy at the ongoing hostilities because he’s under pressure at home.
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Post by Ripley on Dec 1, 2023 23:23:09 GMT
Looks like Biden is wanting a different path from Netanyahu and isn’t happy at the ongoing hostilities because he’s under pressure at home. Yes, Biden's generous funding to Israel will cost him votes, especially among young voters. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2023 10:09:14 GMT
Looks like Biden is wanting a different path from Netanyahu and isn’t happy at the ongoing hostilities because he’s under pressure at home. Yes, Biden's generous funding to Israel will cost him votes, especially among young voters. Biden doesn't rule the world. He soon won't rule America, that's even if he does, now. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 2, 2023 11:21:55 GMT
That’s fair enough then,but the narrative on here (not just you) is that it all appears one sided that it’s the Palestinians fault for everything If you look into the history of the area and the conflict there in, there is no doubt that the Palestinian Arab decision also agreed by Arab countries, to not allow the Palestinian Israelis an area of Jurisdiction in Palestine, and the wars of elimination that followed along with years of Arab suicide bombers etc. is without doubt what has led up to the present day killing, by both sides. An acceptance of the Two State solution in 1948/49 would have seen a completely different outcome. The Jews were eager to accept the two state solution, the Arabs were not they chose violence instead. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 2, 2023 11:24:42 GMT
Looks like Biden is wanting a different path from Netanyahu and isn’t happy at the ongoing hostilities because he’s under pressure at home. Yes, Biden's generous funding to Israel will cost him votes, especially among young voters. Especially amongst the ill-informed. |
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Post by Montegriffo on Dec 2, 2023 17:49:40 GMT
Palestinian "imaginary plight"? I don't know if that was said out of wilful ignorance or just as a wind up, but I think that's the point at which I leave this forum. I hope this isn't true Andrew. |
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Post by Ripley on Dec 2, 2023 18:08:51 GMT
Palestinian "imaginary plight"? I don't know if that was said out of wilful ignorance or just as a wind up, but I think that's the point at which I leave this forum. I hope this isn't true Andrew. I second that. |
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