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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 13:40:55 GMT
Prejudice is still prejudice regardless of how the perpetrator justifies it to themselves. No it is information, black people respond badly to police because of information. What you are saying is that you want to be the arbiter of what information is right to consider and what is wrong. It does not work like that. We all have our own totals of information. No it is prejudice, discriminating against people of a certain ethnicity. The thought process leading up to acts of prejudice doesn't stop it from being prejudice. |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 13:41:56 GMT
So in other words I haven't said it. I didn't say you said it, I said every proposal you made would boil down to that. I've specifically said otherwise. |
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Post by Bentley on Dec 1, 2023 13:44:56 GMT
Disingenuousness again. Unless you are going to claim that the people that would benefit from being taught in school about the harm irrational hatred can and has done should be aimed at black people . You was asked . So nowhere did I say something should be done about white people and then you accuse me of being disengenuous. Incredible. You suggested they would benefit from learning about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred . Unless you are claiming it is black people doing the discrimination. Round and around we go.. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 1, 2023 13:57:50 GMT
So nowhere did I say something should be done about white people and then you accuse me of being disengenuous. Incredible. You suggested they would benefit from learning about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred . Unless you are claiming it is black people doing the discrimination. Round and around we go.. I think any attempt to 'correct' or modify the behavior of black people as a group through instruction, would likely be deemed racist and illegal in the UK. I'm not a legal expert though. To be clear, i'm not advocating such btw. |
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Post by patman post on Dec 1, 2023 14:17:57 GMT
The anti-immigration lobby doesn't have to contend with being ruled by a power some thousands of miles away that imposes its nationals in the top positions of government and justice... Same principle. Uncontrolled migration of aliens causing a negative affect on society. You can’t only make the connection that suit you . ...or disregard a connection because it doesn't suit you... |
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Post by sandypine on Dec 1, 2023 14:57:18 GMT
No it is information, black people respond badly to police because of information. What you are saying is that you want to be the arbiter of what information is right to consider and what is wrong. It does not work like that. We all have our own totals of information. No it is prejudice, discriminating against people of a certain ethnicity. The thought process leading up to acts of prejudice doesn't stop it from being prejudice. There is the problem. You do not know it is prejudice which is "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience:" If it is based on information it cannot be prejudice, it may be but to say it always is is well... prejudiced. |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 16:16:05 GMT
So nowhere did I say something should be done about white people and then you accuse me of being disengenuous. Incredible. You suggested they would benefit from learning about the harm that can and has been done by irrational hatred . Unless you are claiming it is black people doing the discrimination. Round and around we go.. Nope, I said everyone, not white people specifically. |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 16:18:02 GMT
No it is prejudice, discriminating against people of a certain ethnicity. The thought process leading up to acts of prejudice doesn't stop it from being prejudice. There is the problem. You do not know it is prejudice which is "preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience:" If it is based on information it cannot be prejudice, it may be but to say it always is is well... prejudiced. Prejudice based on negative previous experience is still prejudice, it is also irrational to project that experience onto an entire demographic group. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 1, 2023 16:24:39 GMT
If we could stop trying to blame we might actually discuss how to deal with the issue. As I see it as almost impossible in any moral or legal way to send back those we have given homes here. So park that. Can we stop more coming. A: Illegal, well we're trying badly, but they only represent a small percentage of the annual amount. B: Legal. And that's the long conversation. Theoretically if we stop immigration: Some lower paid jobs will disappear as peoples move up to essential jobs that are forced to pay more. We will have to pay more for those services, either through taxation of private costs. House prices will start to fall as the elderly die and the population shrinks How much of this will actually happen that way? Which is ironic because you have blamed just about everyone that voted for any recent government’ …..’we’. Well as I said. I you can argue a large majority voting Tory meant they all supported Brexit, then you can also argue a large majority voting Tory meant they all support Tory immigration figures. Just laying some ground rules, so that when we get onto building enough homes someone doesn't say we shouldn't have to. |
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Post by buccaneer on Dec 1, 2023 16:38:36 GMT
But humans beings have needs and feelings. I make no apologies if they don't subscribe to your world views. Yes people do have needs and feelings, but making decisions based on them rather than factual evidence and observeable reality rarely works out well. So people who've built up their own business should strictly put their needs and feelings aside and base their actions on your views. It seems you want to change the course and function of what it means to be human, and by that you essentially want foreign sounding names to be given a job over anglo-saxon ones with no ifs or buts. |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 16:46:28 GMT
Yes people do have needs and feelings, but making decisions based on them rather than factual evidence and observeable reality rarely works out well. So people who've built up their own business should strictly put their needs and feelings aside and base their actions on your views. It seems you want to change the course and function of what it means to be human, and by that you essentially want foreign sounding names to be given a job over anglo-saxon ones with no ifs or buts. No, that's pretty much the opposite of what I said. I recommend people make decisions based on factual evidence and observeable reality rather than feelings. I don't want to see any kind of prejudice in the job market. |
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Post by Orac on Dec 1, 2023 16:51:07 GMT
So people who've built up their own business should strictly put their needs and feelings aside and base their actions on your views. It seems you want to change the course and function of what it means to be human, and by that you essentially want foreign sounding names to be given a job over anglo-saxon ones with no ifs or buts. No, that's pretty much the opposite of what I said. I recommend people make decisions based on factual evidence and observeable reality rather than feelings. I don't want to see any kind of prejudice in the job market. That doesn't really compute in reality. If you get to decide what aspects of reality are allowed to contribute to their decision, then you are getting to decide for them based on your priorities. This is exactly the sort of thing the market was set up to avoid. |
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 1, 2023 16:52:28 GMT
Nonsense - the people gave the Tories an 80 seat majhority because they promised: "There will be fewer lower-skilled migrants and overall numbers will come down."That the Tories lied is not the fault of the British Public. Are you saying Tory voters are so stupid they believed the lie again and again. You might be right after all they believed them when they said they'd get Brexit done and we'd be better off for it. Its your argument that the people voted a large Tory majority because the public supported Brexit and that was not because they were stupid. Now you're arguing the same people voted a large Tory majority because they were stupid enough to not look at the previous years they had been in government. They did get Brexit done - we have left. You can only vote on the prospectus placed before you - and you have to accept that the people voted for lower immigration. That that lower immigration failed to occur is nobodies fault but the Governments for lying. |
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Post by buccaneer on Dec 1, 2023 17:01:39 GMT
So people who've built up their own business should strictly put their needs and feelings aside and base their actions on your views. It seems you want to change the course and function of what it means to be human, and by that you essentially want foreign sounding names to be given a job over anglo-saxon ones with no ifs or buts. No, that's pretty much the opposite of what I said. I recommend people make decisions based on factual evidence and observeable reality rather than feelings. I don't want to see any kind of prejudice in the job market. So if two CVs have exactly the same merit and the only difference is an exotic sounding name to an anglo-saxon sounding one, can you advise the employer on the factual evidence and observable reality as whom to choose the job should go to? |
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Post by happyhornet on Dec 1, 2023 17:03:53 GMT
No, that's pretty much the opposite of what I said. I recommend people make decisions based on factual evidence and observeable reality rather than feelings. I don't want to see any kind of prejudice in the job market. That doesn't really compute in reality. If you get to decide what aspects of reality are allowed to contribute to their decision, then you are getting to decide for them based on your priorities. This is exactly the sort of thing the market was set up to avoid. When did I say that I should decide what aspects of reality are allowed to contribute to their decision? |
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