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Post by happyhornet on Nov 28, 2023 11:52:30 GMT
Getting back to immigration. Last year 26,715 Nigerians were given health and social care visas mainly for minimum wage jobs - that 26,715 brought 45,203 dependents with them. I'm struggling to see how this is in any way beneficial to the UK. That's something Brawerman was proposing to fix before she sacked. With an African now running the Home Office I'd say any prospect of a fix is receding into the distance fast. James Cleverly is British. How exactly does the country benefit from people like you going around creating division and hostility by questioning the Britishness of your fellow citizens? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 28, 2023 11:53:25 GMT
Very possibly. In fact most probably. Many are simply unassimilable and many more don't want to assimilate except in a most superficial manner. I agree that there are some immigrants who don't integrate and that's half the problem. The other half of the problem is indigenous Brits who exclude and alienate immigrants and their descendants no matter how well integrated they are, examples of which we've seen on this thread. For the avoidance of confusion my own view, perhaps a minority one, is that it is in our long-term interest that incomers should be encouraged to retain all aspects of their 'otherness' and display them on every possible occasion. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 28, 2023 11:55:17 GMT
I agree that there are some immigrants who don't integrate and that's half the problem. The other half of the problem is indigenous Brits who exclude and alienate immigrants and their descendants no matter how well integrated they are, examples of which we've seen on this thread. For the avoidance of confusion my own view, perhaps a minority one, is that it is in our long-term interest that incomers should be encouraged to retain all aspects of their 'otherness' and display them on every possible occasion. Like wearing a yellow star? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 28, 2023 12:06:51 GMT
If that's part of the national costume, why not? Lots of people on show on Sunday prominently displaying a blue one, presumably of their own accord. On Saturday it was the red crescent and star.
All very visible displays of 'otherness', not something we forced on them.
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Post by Orac on Nov 28, 2023 12:28:20 GMT
I would say that social engineering the idea that one particular group's descendants don't (can't) have exclusive access to their predecessor's territory, is a form of genocide. Over generations this expectation of lopsided and ongoing sharing will result in this group's territory and numbers getting smaller and smaller until they disappear. So the mere presence of people like me is an act of genocide? No - that's not what i said. I said that the memed / socially engineered expectation results in functionally genocidal pattern. A pattern that will almost inevitably result in the erasure of the targeted group The real work here was done over decades to acclimatize the targeted group into accepting a set of rules that game theory out to them no longer existing. |
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Post by happyhornet on Nov 28, 2023 12:38:20 GMT
So the mere presence of people like me is an act of genocide? No - that's not what i said. I said that the memed / socially engineered expectation results in functionally genocidal pattern. A pattern that will almost inevitably result in the erasure of the targeted group The real work here was done over decades to acclimatize the targeted group into accepting a set of rules that game theory out to them no longer existing. Demographics changing over time is not genocide. Try telling a survivor of the Holocaust or Rwanda that you're the victim of genocide. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 28, 2023 12:56:13 GMT
I would say that social engineering the idea that a particular group's descendants don't (can't) have exclusive access to their predecessor's territory, is a form of genocide. It's not going to be immediate, but it is going to genocide all the same. It will take a handful of generations. How are they being killed? The same way an organism is killed by removing its habitat. If you don't feel this is the case, go and find some other targets and see what response you get from the suggestion that they treated in a similar way. Ask a family man if it would be okay that his family home in particular be shared on an equal footing with any interested neighbours. Ask a nesting animal if it would okay if his / her nest in particular become joint property to any other organism wishing to use it for their purposes. Ask the Chinese if they would be happy with an arrangement that gives any interested Indians, Russians or Europeans access to their territory on an equal footing to their own children. As soon as the target moves somewhere else, it becomes obvious this would be a brazen ask equivalent to asking a group or entity to commit suicide by (effectively) leaving their young nothing. You only have a blind spot regarding the reasonable rights of one group in particular. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 28, 2023 13:01:24 GMT
No - that's not what i said. I said that the memed / socially engineered expectation results in functionally genocidal pattern. A pattern that will almost inevitably result in the erasure of the targeted group The real work here was done over decades to acclimatize the targeted group into accepting a set of rules that game theory out to them no longer existing. Demographics changing over time is not genocide. Try telling a survivor of the Holocaust or Rwanda that you're the victim of genocide. You keep constructing a strawman. I didn't say changing demographics is genocide. I highlighted the persistent socially engineered expectation that one group in particular not be allowed to pass its territory to its young (not be allowed to exclude other groups). |
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Post by jonksy on Nov 28, 2023 13:10:01 GMT
No - that's not what i said. I said that the memed / socially engineered expectation results in functionally genocidal pattern. A pattern that will almost inevitably result in the erasure of the targeted group The real work here was done over decades to acclimatize the targeted group into accepting a set of rules that game theory out to them no longer existing. Demographics changing over time is not genocide. Try telling a survivor of the Holocaust or Rwanda that you're the victim of genocide. How many strawmen are you prepared to use on a single thread hh? |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 28, 2023 13:52:55 GMT
How are they being killed? Not so much being killed as dying off.
The natural consequence of loss of habitat and a birthrate dramatically less than replacement level. It's a commonly observed phenomenon in the natural world, of which we are a part despite protestations to the contrary.
So if we magically transported all the immigrants back 'home'. Natural born Brits would step up their birth rate? Or are you worried about the number of White Brits breeding with immigrants and disappearing into a new race? Current 10% of couples are mixed race. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 28, 2023 14:01:04 GMT
How are they being killed? The same way an organism is killed by removing its habitat. If you don't feel this is the case, go and find some other targets and see what response you get from the suggestion that they treated in a similar way. Ask a family man if it would be okay that his family home in particular be shared on an equal footing with any interested neighbours. Ask a nesting animal if it would okay if his / her nest in particular become joint property to any other organism wishing to use it for their purposes. Ask the Chinese if they would be happy with an arrangement that gives any interested Indians, Russians or Europeans access to their territory on an equal footing to their own children. As soon as the target moves somewhere else, it becomes obvious this would be a brazen ask equivalent to asking a group or entity to commit suicide by (effectively) leaving their young nothing. You only have a blind spot regarding the reasonable rights of one group in particular. Who has removed our habitat? If a herd of wildebeest move into the same area as a herd of Zebra they share the habitat. It is not removed unless there isn't enough for both. We have not run out of habitat in the UK and certainly no one is starving. A better comparison would be if a different herd of Zebra move into the same area and the two herds start to interbreed. Does the original herd suffer genocide from this? Your comparisons get more ridiculous with every post. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 28, 2023 14:02:36 GMT
Demographics changing over time is not genocide. Try telling a survivor of the Holocaust or Rwanda that you're the victim of genocide. How many strawmen are you prepared to use on a single thread hh? Yeah HH. Only Orac owns Mr strawman. You need to ask permission to use him. |
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Post by sandypine on Nov 28, 2023 14:05:23 GMT
Not so much being killed as dying off.
The natural consequence of loss of habitat and a birthrate dramatically less than replacement level. It's a commonly observed phenomenon in the natural world, of which we are a part despite protestations to the contrary.
So if we magically transported all the immigrants back 'home'. Natural born Brits would step up their birth rate? Or are you worried about the number of White Brits breeding with immigrants and disappearing into a new race? Current 10% of couples are mixed race. Well mixed race includes all sorts of mixes sometimes Irish and English. However according to what one sees on the tele most marriages are either mixed race or black. The mixed race marriages are mainly black men and white women, Sometimes on does not see both partners in teh marriage but the children leave you in little doubt. It is all part of teh process whether it is intentional (and teh mounting evidence can only conclude that there is a degree of intention) or not the race laws we have and the policies applied as regards diversity etc mean that the pressure is on everyone to depict that which is not true. |
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Post by zanygame on Nov 28, 2023 14:13:56 GMT
So if we magically transported all the immigrants back 'home'. Natural born Brits would step up their birth rate? Or are you worried about the number of White Brits breeding with immigrants and disappearing into a new race? Current 10% of couples are mixed race. Well mixed race includes all sorts of mixes sometimes Irish and English. However according to what one sees on the tele most marriages are either mixed race or black. The mixed race marriages are mainly black men and white women, Sometimes on does not see both partners in teh marriage but the children leave you in little doubt. It is all part of teh process whether it is intentional (and teh mounting evidence can only conclude that there is a degree of intention) or not the race laws we have and the policies applied as regards diversity etc mean that the pressure is on everyone to depict that which is not true. How would you know if what you were seeing on tele was a mixed Irish English race marriage? Your blinkers only allow you to see in black and white. If you are suggesting that we are being coerced into who we fall in love with, then I think you are bonkers. Like those who think you can choose to be homosexual and start fancying large bearded men. Q; Why are all your The's written as Teh's |
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Post by Orac on Nov 28, 2023 14:15:39 GMT
The same way an organism is killed by removing its habitat. If you don't feel this is the case, go and find some other targets and see what response you get from the suggestion that they treated in a similar way. Ask a family man if it would be okay that his family home in particular be shared on an equal footing with any interested neighbours. Ask a nesting animal if it would okay if his / her nest in particular become joint property to any other organism wishing to use it for their purposes. Ask the Chinese if they would be happy with an arrangement that gives any interested Indians, Russians or Europeans access to their territory on an equal footing to their own children. As soon as the target moves somewhere else, it becomes obvious this would be a brazen ask equivalent to asking a group or entity to commit suicide by (effectively) leaving their young nothing. You only have a blind spot regarding the reasonable rights of one group in particular. A better comparison would be if a different herd of Zebra move into the same area and the two herds start to interbreed. Does the original herd suffer genocide from this? It could well be with a few caveats. If strain A lives in one area and the globally more numerous strain B is introduced in large numbers specifically and deliberately into that area. The likely result will be the dissolution of strain A but not strain B. Analogously a far more bizarre situation exists, one in which our strain A lives in several locations and strain A's numerical dominance in each of cases is cast as immoral - ie a problem that needs to be solved with the introduction of strain B. This peculiar situation is unlikely to be an accident. |
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