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Post by patman post on Nov 9, 2022 16:16:37 GMT
Free training (for recognisable qualifications after up to four years) on a crap wage doesn’t even compare to the training offered to military recruits, where it’s highlighted as a reason to sign up… HCA wages are not crap. The chance to study while being paid is a good thing, right? Nurses are not military. Not sure why you're citing HCA wages — my comments were on degree level apprenticeship training.
Apprenticeships, start at the national minimum wage for apprentices range from £4.81 to £9.18 per hour depending on age and length of service. But all apprenticeship pay depends on whether it's for intermediate, advanced, higher, degree or master levels.
During degree level apprentice training (up to BSc Honours) is paid at around £17,000. Full-time roles after qualifying should start at around £22,000...
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Post by Bentley on Nov 9, 2022 16:22:02 GMT
HCA wages are not crap. The chance to study while being paid is a good thing, right? Nurses are not military. Not sure why you're citing HCA wages — my comments were on degree level apprenticeship training.
Apprenticeships, start at the national minimum wage for apprentices range from £4.81 to £9.18 per hour depending on age and length of service. But all apprenticeship pay depends on whether it's for intermediate, advanced, higher, degree or master levels.
During degree level apprentice training (up to BSc Honours) is paid at around £17,000. Full-time roles after qualifying should start at around £22,000...
Because you cited HCA wages first in the post I answered . That’s why 😁 HCAs aren’t apprentices. They are hospital assistants. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 17:08:42 GMT
Yup, now you are living in the real world. So every government worker gets a large wage rise ? If it's needed to bring them up to a decent standard of living. What was it Theresa May called some workers, Just Managing. Why should hard working people have to just manage. It surprises me the number of people that thing poverty and using food banks in this country in this day and age is 'acceptable'. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 9, 2022 17:10:51 GMT
So every government worker gets a large wage rise ? If it's needed to bring them up to a decent standard of living. What was it Theresa May called some workers, Just Managing. Why should hard working people have to just manage. It surprises me the number of people that thing poverty and using food banks in this country in this day and age is 'acceptable'. And then we should make sure that workers in the private section get a large pay rise too? For parity? |
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Post by patman post on Nov 9, 2022 19:00:09 GMT
Not sure why you're citing HCA wages — my comments were on degree level apprenticeship training.
Apprenticeships, start at the national minimum wage for apprentices range from £4.81 to £9.18 per hour depending on age and length of service. But all apprenticeship pay depends on whether it's for intermediate, advanced, higher, degree or master levels.
During degree level apprentice training (up to BSc Honours) is paid at around £17,000. Full-time roles after qualifying should start at around £22,000...
Because you cited HCA wages first in the post I answered . That’s why 😁 HCAs aren’t apprentices. They are hospital assistants. I may be missing something here, but the first mention of HCA seems to be in one of your posts… |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 9, 2022 21:04:10 GMT
dodgydave >> "20%, bollocks!! My missus is a nurse and I've been reading all the Union stuff. They are 6% down, that is why they are asking for 15%... inflation + 6% catch up.
I suggest you look up "Agenda for Change". Yes, there were pay freezes after 2007, but with Agenda for Change 2018, they got increases of up to 25%, and reduction of pay points so they could climb to the top of bands quicker.
I think you will find you are using information that is either prior to 2018, or has forgotten the MASSIVE 3-year Agenda for Change pay deal."
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(Nursing In Practice: nursinginpractice.com) 31 October 2022
Nurses’ wages have declined in real terms by at least 20% over the last decade, despite successive pay rises for those on Agenda for Change, a new study has found.
Research conducted by London Economics, and commissioned by the Royal College of Nursing (RCN), suggested that an experienced nurse at band five or six of Agenda for Change is now being paid the same for five days of work as they would have been for four days of work in 2011.
www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/nurses-real-wage-down-20-in-ten-years-despite-raises/
The RCN has said nurses have endured a real-terms pay cut of 20 per cent since 2010 ( I News )
inews.co.uk/news/nurses-strike-going-on-when-strike-planned-2022-nhs-pay-rise-explained-1958758
The average nurse is 6% worse off. What they have done is used the term "experienced nurse" to mean somebody at the top of the band. The top of the bands were capped at 6.5%, plus 3.8% lump sum during 2018-2021. Nurse in the first year got 22%, third year 16% etc. Top of the bands 6.5% plus 3.8% lump sum. So yes, if you are talking about the people at the top of the bands and includes this years inflation then yeah it is 20%, but personally I think that is a dishonest figure to be banding about. Like I said the AVERAGE nurse is 6% behind in real terms, hence the 15% demanded for this year. www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/nhs-nurses-to-get-a-pay-rise-of-up-to-22-in-new-pay-deal/ |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 9, 2022 21:12:44 GMT
dodgydave >> "Nobody believes a nurse earning £34k basic (then add shift allowance, overtime, bank shifts) is using food banks or needs petrol money. A healthcare assistant, or admin on £20k, who may not have access to allowance, overtime and bank shifts, then yeah maybe."Allthough £34K may very well be a mean average of nurse pay, there are actually quite a lot of nurses on pay scales way below this level, many in the lower £20k range. It is not simply about what £20K or £30K can buy you, its also about the WORTH of someone with not only the ability and intelligence to be a nurse, but also the many years of trainning to carry out skilled and highly skilled work, which has got more and more demanding in recent years. No matter which way you care to look at it, nurses pay in real terms has gone down, and the professional bodies are now saying "enough is enough", and they simply will not accept another real terms pay cut. That is simply untrue, there are no nurses in the lower £20k range. The starting salary is £27,055, then you need to add shift premiums, so realistically they are all earning over £30k. Plus, they can do bank work. The average nurse is down 6% since the 2007 financial crisis. I'm not saying they don't deserve a decent pay rise, I think they should get inflation, but the 15% they are asking for just isn't going to happen. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 21:26:12 GMT
Here's a Tweet from the Royal College of Nurses, tweeted tonight >>
The NHS is in crisis.
Patients are unsafe.
Our members are saying loud and clear: enough is enough.
For the first time in the RCN’s history, our members have mandated strike action throughout the UK.
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Its not only about pay, its about this government since 2010 forcing nurses and other NHS professionals to do more for the same money, work under immense presure, work harder with less staff, work longer shifts, work weekends, work in A&E departments and other areas which are grossly over-subscribed, with not enough capacity, unable to cope, hence growing waiting times.
I believe the die-hard Tory supporters here and elsewhere will no doubt defend the government imposing YET ANOTHER miserable pay rise upon nurses, but I am convinced that the majority of the electorate will support them.
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 9, 2022 22:25:10 GMT
Here's a Tweet from the Royal College of Nurses, tweeted tonight >> The NHS is in crisis. Patients are unsafe. Our members are saying loud and clear: enough is enough. For the first time in the RCN’s history, our members have mandated strike action throughout the UK. ------------------------------------------------------------- Its not only about pay, its about this government since 2010 forcing nurses and other NHS professionals to do more for the same money, work under immense presure, work harder with less staff, work longer shifts, work weekends, work in A&E departments and other areas which are grossly over-subscribed, with not enough capacity, unable to cope, hence growing waiting times. I believe the die-hard Tory supporters here and elsewhere will no doubt defend the government imposing YET ANOTHER miserable pay rise upon nurses, but I am convinced that the majority of the electorate will support them.What are you basing that on? - the people standing on their doorstep clapping like seals? Remember that the LibDems went into the 2017 election promising an extra 1p on income tax to fund the NHS - they ended up with a drop in votes of 0.5% of the electorate. |
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Post by dodgydave on Nov 9, 2022 23:47:49 GMT
Here's a Tweet from the Royal College of Nurses, tweeted tonight >> The NHS is in crisis. Patients are unsafe. Our members are saying loud and clear: enough is enough. For the first time in the RCN’s history, our members have mandated strike action throughout the UK. ------------------------------------------------------------- Its not only about pay, its about this government since 2010 forcing nurses and other NHS professionals to do more for the same money, work under immense presure, work harder with less staff, work longer shifts, work weekends, work in A&E departments and other areas which are grossly over-subscribed, with not enough capacity, unable to cope, hence growing waiting times. I believe the die-hard Tory supporters here and elsewhere will no doubt defend the government imposing YET ANOTHER miserable pay rise upon nurses, but I am convinced that the majority of the electorate will support them. Really... go and ask a person at random if you think a nurse earning an average of £34k should get a 15% pay rise (£5100)... at a cost to the taxpayer of £3.5b. My missus is a nurse, we would love it if she got a 15% pay rise... I'm struggling to believe many people would support her wage going up by £8,000 during a financial crisis though. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 3:02:09 GMT
If it's needed to bring them up to a decent standard of living. What was it Theresa May called some workers, Just Managing. Why should hard working people have to just manage. It surprises me the number of people that thing poverty and using food banks in this country in this day and age is 'acceptable'. And then we should make sure that workers in the private section get a large pay rise too? For parity? I cannot understand some people's acceptance that workers should be 'grateful' to be underpaid and overworked. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 10, 2022 10:18:55 GMT
Just look at the front headline on the Daily Mirror, the nurses striking because they have to use foodbanks or eat the leftovers from patience, the nurses they are showing are overweight, so they must be using a lot of food banks or scoffing a lot of left overs. www.mirror.co.uk |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2022 11:08:13 GMT
dodgydave >> Really... go and ask a person at random if you think a nurse earning an average of £34k should get a 15% pay rise (£5100)... at a cost to the taxpayer of £3.5b.
My missus is a nurse, we would love it if she got a 15% pay rise... I'm struggling to believe many people would support her wage going up by £8,000 during a financial crisis though.
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Seems to me that you fail to grasp the gravity of the appaling situation within the NHS and the years of pay freezes and below inflation pay rises, do you not think that the evidence speaks for itself ? - the chronic staff shortages.
My own wife is a doctor, a consultant, highly qualified, on the board of the local NHS Trust, a committee member of one of the Royal Colleges. My wife has got used to working in departments that are understaffed, its now a permanent feature of work, but she s going to do what so many others have done, and plan to do - GET OUT as soon as possible.
You wont fix a growing staff shortage situation by telling people they are lucky to be earning so much, even though their pay has been going down and down.
The government have a choice, say goodbye to the NHS or invest in it properly
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Post by Bentley on Nov 10, 2022 11:18:31 GMT
And then we should make sure that workers in the private section get a large pay rise too? For parity? I cannot understand some people's acceptance that workers should be 'grateful' to be underpaid and overworked. Do is that a yes or no? |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 10, 2022 11:20:12 GMT
Just look at the front headline on the Daily Mirror, the nurses striking because they have to use foodbanks or eat the leftovers from patience, the nurses they are showing are overweight, so they must be using a lot of food banks or scoffing a lot of left overs. www.mirror.co.ukI have noticed that for years. Not only that but some nurses ( and HCAs) seem to be bursting out of their uniforms . The only conclusion is that they gained weight after they got them issued . |
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