Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 15:00:06 GMT
Read it how you want but it is pretty plain to see. "Record numbers of nurses are quitting the NHS in England, with overwhelmed staff ditching hospital roles for better-paid retail gigs. More than 40,000 have left the health service in the past year – nearly a tenth of the workforce, official data suggests. Many leavers were highly skilled and knowledgeable with years more work left. They were quitting in pursuit of a better work-life balance, analysts said". Are nurses not staff or are you defining work roles.  Come on then, link me a retail job that pays £34k... Like I said, you have to work 80 hours a week in retail to earn that!! There is a reason they change their language during the article from nurse to workforce. It is to suggest that nurses are using foodbanks, while not actually saying it, so they cannot be called out. Nobody believes a nurse earning £34k basic (then add shift allowance, overtime, bank shifts) is using food banks or needs petrol money. A healthcare assistant, or admin on £20k, who may not have access to allowance, overtime and bank shifts, then yeah maybe. Well yes of course some nurses are leaving for better work life balance, many of the roles are shift based. We have had 30 drivers leave our place this year, and it's a £50k+ a year job, but it's mostly lates and nights, so doesn't suit everybody. Like I also said, the shortages are making people leave too, because the more leave, the worse it gets. www.nhsbands.co.uk/Using your own example of working 80 hours to earn £34k, nurses often work longer hours than that for no more pay. "Highly skilled health care workers. The latest NHS England staff survey found that over 65% of registered nurses and a third (30.4%) of nursing support workers worked extra hours that were unpaid". |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Nov 9, 2022 15:06:33 GMT
Our local DGH ( District General Hospital ) covers a relatively small population area of 163,000 people spread over a wide area of the North Yorkshire coast and countryside, including the North York Moors. The area has 4 ambulance stations covering 900 square miles Yesterday a member of the public filmed a total of 14 ambulances queuing at the A&E department at the Disrict General Hospital in Scarborough, meaning that 14 ambulances ARE NOT AVAILABLE for calls or emergencies. The staff shortages are so acute at Scarborough Hospital, that the health trust has engaged a private company to supply nurse / paramedics, but the private company has not got the number of qualified people required, and therefore the company is advertising for for the roles, at a pay rate of between £28 and £36 per hour.
The AVERAGE wait time for a 999 Emergency call in this area is now over half an hour I have spoken with several people in the last few days who have been to Scarborough Hospital, the overwhelming impression is that there are simply not enough staff. One lady I spoke to told me that she needed urgent attention at the outpatient centre, the doctor she saw looked worn out and tired. Our NHS is crumbling before our very eyes, it was falling apart before anyone had ever heard of Covid, and there are several reasons for the NHS heading towards a situation where its not fit for purpose - but mainly that investment and resources have been too little / not enough, over a long period of time from 2011 until today, over ten years. Nurses and other health professionals have seen in real terms - a 20% cut in their pay over the last 10 years due to pay freezes and pay awards below the rate of inflation. We need a realisation amongst the public that our NHS is not safe under the Tories, and we need an acceptance that unless we pay staff FAIRLY, they will leave the service, and staff shortages will get worse, services will not be able to function. 20%, bollocks!! My missus is a nurse and I've been reading all the Union stuff. They are 6% down, that is why they are asking for 15%... inflation + 6% catch up. I suggest you look up "Agenda for Change". Yes, there were pay freezes after 2007, but with Agenda for Change 2018, they got increases of up to 25%, and reduction of pay points so they could climb to the top of bands quicker. I think you will find you are using information that is either prior to 2018, or has forgotten the MASSIVE 3-year Agenda for Change pay deal. |
|
|
|
Post by dodgydave on Nov 9, 2022 15:12:50 GMT
Come on then, link me a retail job that pays £34k... Like I said, you have to work 80 hours a week in retail to earn that!! There is a reason they change their language during the article from nurse to workforce. It is to suggest that nurses are using foodbanks, while not actually saying it, so they cannot be called out. Nobody believes a nurse earning £34k basic (then add shift allowance, overtime, bank shifts) is using food banks or needs petrol money. A healthcare assistant, or admin on £20k, who may not have access to allowance, overtime and bank shifts, then yeah maybe. Well yes of course some nurses are leaving for better work life balance, many of the roles are shift based. We have had 30 drivers leave our place this year, and it's a £50k+ a year job, but it's mostly lates and nights, so doesn't suit everybody. Like I also said, the shortages are making people leave too, because the more leave, the worse it gets. www.nhsbands.co.uk/Using your own example of working 80 hours to earn £34k, nurses often work longer hours than that for no more pay. "Highly skilled health care workers. The latest NHS England staff survey found that over 65% of registered nurses and a third (30.4%) of nursing support workers worked extra hours that were unpaid". You are falling for spin again... Overtime has to be authorised, but when it is not they time bank the hours and either work less on other days, or have a day off. That is very different from extra hours being "unpaid". eg my missus has every 2nd Friday off from the hours she has built up. |
|
|
|
Post by Toreador on Nov 9, 2022 15:14:57 GMT
Our local DGH ( District General Hospital ) covers a relatively small population area of 163,000 people spread over a wide area of the North Yorkshire coast and countryside, including the North York Moors. The area has 4 ambulance stations covering 900 square miles Yesterday a member of the public filmed a total of 14 ambulances queuing at the A&E department at the Disrict General Hospital in Scarborough, meaning that 14 ambulances ARE NOT AVAILABLE for calls or emergencies. The staff shortages are so acute at Scarborough Hospital, that the health trust has engaged a private company to supply nurse / paramedics, but the private company has not got the number of qualified people required, and therefore the company is advertising for for the roles, at a pay rate of between £28 and £36 per hour.
The AVERAGE wait time for a 999 Emergency call in this area is now over half an hour I have spoken with several people in the last few days who have been to Scarborough Hospital, the overwhelming impression is that there are simply not enough staff. One lady I spoke to told me that she needed urgent attention at the outpatient centre, the doctor she saw looked worn out and tired. Our NHS is crumbling before our very eyes, it was falling apart before anyone had ever heard of Covid, and there are several reasons for the NHS heading towards a situation where its not fit for purpose - but mainly that investment and resources have been too little / not enough, over a long period of time from 2011 until today, over ten years. Nurses and other health professionals have seen in real terms - a 20% cut in their pay over the last 10 years due to pay freezes and pay awards below the rate of inflation. We need a realisation amongst the public that our NHS is not safe under the Tories, and we need an acceptance that unless we pay staff FAIRLY, they will leave the service, and staff shortages will get worse, services will not be able to function. I've just rung the private hospital where I had surgery paid for by the NHS. I was told there is no talk of strike action and I suspect the pay is decent but above all, the place is far better managed with minimal interference from admin. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 15:16:12 GMT
dodgydave >> "Nobody believes a nurse earning £34k basic (then add shift allowance, overtime, bank shifts) is using food banks or needs petrol money. A healthcare assistant, or admin on £20k, who may not have access to allowance, overtime and bank shifts, then yeah maybe."
Allthough £34K may very well be a mean average of nurse pay, there are actually quite a lot of nurses on pay scales way below this level, many in the lower £20k range.
It is not simply about what £20K or £30K can buy you, its also about the WORTH of someone with not only the ability and intelligence to be a nurse, but also the many years of trainning to carry out skilled and highly skilled work, which has got more and more demanding in recent years.
No matter which way you care to look at it, nurses pay in real terms has gone down, and the professional bodies are now saying "enough is enough", and they simply will not accept another real terms pay cut.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 9, 2022 15:21:58 GMT
You don’t get that by filling shelves either . You are quoting nurses wages and saying they get enough but they get below the average wage. That cannot be moral, they do an amazing job and need compensated accordingly. I’m saying that they wouldn’t get that at stacking shelves . You are the one that changing the goalposts to average wage then pretended I said something then pretended I said something that I didn’t . |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 9, 2022 15:22:07 GMT
One of the reasons that nurses pay may not be as good as they would like...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 15:24:20 GMT
dodgydave >> "20%, bollocks!! My missus is a nurse and I've been reading all the Union stuff. They are 6% down, that is why they are asking for 15%... inflation + 6% catch up.
I suggest you look up "Agenda for Change". Yes, there were pay freezes after 2007, but with Agenda for Change 2018, they got increases of up to 25%, and reduction of pay points so they could climb to the top of bands quicker.
I think you will find you are using information that is either prior to 2018, or has forgotten the MASSIVE 3-year Agenda for Change pay deal."
---------------------------------------------------------
(Nursing In Practice: nursinginpractice.com) 31 October 2022
Nurses’ wages have declined in real terms by at least 20% over the last decade, despite successive pay rises for those on Agenda for Change, a new study has found.
Research conducted by London Economics, and commissioned by the Royal College of Nursing (RCN), suggested that an experienced nurse at band five or six of Agenda for Change is now being paid the same for five days of work as they would have been for four days of work in 2011.
www.nursinginpractice.com/latest-news/nurses-real-wage-down-20-in-ten-years-despite-raises/
The RCN has said nurses have endured a real-terms pay cut of 20 per cent since 2010 ( I News )
inews.co.uk/news/nurses-strike-going-on-when-strike-planned-2022-nhs-pay-rise-explained-1958758
|
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 9, 2022 15:28:55 GMT
So when nurses receive a large pay rise , all the other staff get the same rise to ensure parity to the nurses?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 15:34:58 GMT
You are quoting nurses wages and saying they get enough but they get below the average wage. That cannot be moral, they do an amazing job and need compensated accordingly. I’m saying that they wouldn’t get that at stacking shelves . You are the one that changing the goalposts to average wage then pretended I said something then pretended I said something that I didn’t . Read what you wrote above. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 9, 2022 15:35:36 GMT
I’m saying that they wouldn’t get that at stacking shelves . You are the one that changing the goalposts to average wage then pretended I said something then pretended I said something that I didn’t . Read what you wrote above. I did . So should you . |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 15:35:37 GMT
So when nurses receive a large pay rise , all the other staff get the same rise to ensure parity to the nurses? Well done. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 9, 2022 15:38:38 GMT
So when nurses receive a large pay rise , all the other staff get the same rise to ensure parity to the nurses? Well done. And then the fire service , military, police , council workers etc get the same ? Not forgetting care workers , of course. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2022 15:58:33 GMT
And then the fire service , military, police , council workers etc get the same ? Not forgetting care workers , of course. Yup, now you are living in the real world. |
|
|
|
Post by Bentley on Nov 9, 2022 16:08:53 GMT
And then the fire service , military, police , council workers etc get the same ? Not forgetting care workers , of course. Yup, now you are living in the real world. So every government worker gets a large wage rise ? |
|
