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Post by Orac on Nov 19, 2023 10:15:31 GMT
Well you say you didn't, but the effect in reality is that you did. I'll give you an easy example - for years the Fire Brigades Union campaigned for women Firefighters to have their own single sex changing rooms. Eventually their campaign was successful - however now they are being told they must share those changing rooms with people who are biologically men. Now, Women Firefighters who campaign for single sex changing rooms, are told they are 'Terfs' or 'not inclusive' - and guess who the left support. Certainly most of the ones on this forum obsessing about fake women with dicks - so to speak - tend to be right wingers, who seem to be triggered by the issue even though in percentage terms the numbers involved are vanishingly small. This is one of the strawmen that blocks the conversation - it is actually a good example of a motif or theme in the left's treatment of the subject. Few people are actually particularly bothered by (say) men pretending to be women. The concern is an allied attempt to bend reality and enforce a denial of truth by employing taboos - and the attempt to ride those taboos into enforcing acceptance of men entering (say) women's toilets as some kind of 'right of entry' (this is a civilisation issue) The left are playing alternate reality games. I'm struck by how often the distinction I make here (or similar) are drawn in the conversation and how they are continually ignored so the strawman can be re-positioned. Of course, the correct response here is to ride through the manipulation, to make it clear that the taboo vs strawman game isn't go work and so there is no alternative to actually discussing the issue. Sadly, this has been attempted many times, but the left can't really talk about this plainly without losing their position - and so they don't. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 10:20:14 GMT
You speak of demonstrated facts, and left wing politics. What is left wing about the appeasement of any religious beliefs? Islam, like other Abrahamic faiths, is homophobic and illiberal. It's ok for people to be Muslims, but not to push for theocracy. The theocratic segment of the Muslim community, needs to be countered in order to preserve the liberal way of life. What is left wing about the EU? Nothing about it is economically left wing. It's the antithesis of anything Tony Benn, Dennis Skinner, Peter Shore, Barbara Castle, and Clement Attlee, stood for. It is an anarcho capitalist club. A protectionist one at that. What left wing policies does it provide that you approve of? As for Brexit, it is a resounding success. The ONS export statistics speak for themselves. Parallel universe stuff again. How many working people out there think they have been getting better off since Brexit? Not very many. Our growth is lower than it would have been, our trade with the EU more expensive because of tariff barriers, and most of the free trade agreements outside the EU simply replace agreements we already had with those countries as an EU member. Increased costs of trade with our nearest neighbours, including border delays and a huge increase in bureaucracy, has helped fuel inflation and put some enterprises that relied on exporting to the EU out of business. Economic growth and the size of our economy are calculated to be substantially lower than they otherwise would have been. And we are all noticing we are getting poorer. All of which speaks for itself. As does this.... obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/the-economy-forecast/brexit-analysis/#indepth |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 10:38:37 GMT
Why did the Left stop caring about womens rights? Notice he called people who disagree with the trans lie ‘ hard right ‘. Some of you are. Most culture warriors on the opposing side tend to be. You are the useful idiots of the people in charge who are milking us dry and destroying our country. After all, if they can keep you angry and foaming at the mouth about a tiny percentage of women with dicks, you are not going to be getting angry at the ones who are really responsible for all your problems. It is straight out of the establishment playbook of keeping the plebs angry at target groups of typically powerless people easy to demonise - trans people have become the latest such group, joining the ranks of asylum seekers, immigrants, welfare claimants, single mothers, the homeless, gypsies, and so on. If they can keep you angry about any or all of these, you'll have no time to nurture anger towards the ones with all the power who are really screwing us over in their own interests. After all consider this:- Who is most likely to be responsible for all our problems and the state we are in? The powerful ones making all the decisions and controlling everything? Or the powerless ones with no power to change anything and controlling nothing? Figure that one out and you might just conceivably direct your malice where it ought to be directed. But I won't hold my breath. You have after all seemingly invested a lifetime in swallowing their shit. Human psychology means your ego will resist any acceptance that you might have been misguided. So you will see me as the fool instead for pointing out the logically obvious. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 10:42:45 GMT
Like I mentioned before, you're not in control, and if this place was in the hands of one Lefty I and many others wouldn't be here. Your post is also proof that you don't have anything to offer other than weird bollocks and abuse, where you only end up looking very foolish, which has been rather consistent so far.
I know you can't actually challenge my posts or even demonstrate that I am wrong, because that would require intelligence and honesty, as well as the inevitable acceptance that I am right.
Islam - you submit to the Qu'ran, to Mo and to Allah. You do not question it. For all intent and purposes it is the prison for the mind.
Left - doesn't allow any opposition and demands total obedience to doctrine. No-platforms for those who disobey whilst offering full support to hardline Islamism.
Your pathetic and hypocritical attempt at political psychiatry seems to have failed.
The only thing inevitable about the utter drivel you post is that it will consist of bigoted nonsense laced with conspiracy theory rubbish. As here when you tar all Muslims and an entire religion with the same brush, spouting the politics of ignorance and hate as usual, whilst laughably claiming superior intelligence. When you actually make a reasonable intellectual point instead of emoting negativity and malice, you might elicit an intelligent response. There is noting bigoted, hateful or non-factual in my post. No where have I tarred all Muslims which highlights the fact that you're unable to post like a normal human being without spewing mindless abuse and lies. What I posted about Islam is something every Muslim who understands Islam would acknowledge. Submission (it literally means this) to Islam is a collective social-political and religious system, where everyone is the same and removed from their ego and doubt both at the individual and social level. This is why they call it peace, but getting there and maintaining it has been historically documented with the use of a sword. The Left are proven totalitarian and every system they set up leads to the same thing. This is why there is only the Communist party in all countries that were conquered by Marxism in the east. They used violence, oppression and democide to get there. You see, you're alike in many ways, only that the advocates of Islam are actually more honest than the average authoritarian lefty.
Still, I can see you're obviously unstable, but that's OK. It's to be expected from the far-left.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 11:02:03 GMT
The only thing inevitable about the utter drivel you post is that it will consist of bigoted nonsense laced with conspiracy theory rubbish. As here when you tar all Muslims and an entire religion with the same brush, spouting the politics of ignorance and hate as usual, whilst laughably claiming superior intelligence. When you actually make a reasonable intellectual point instead of emoting negativity and malice, you might elicit an intelligent response. There is noting bigoted, hateful or non-factual in my post. No where have I tarred all Muslims which highlights the fact that you're unable to post like a normal human being without spewing mindless abuse and lies. What I posted about Islam is something every Muslim who understands Islam would acknowledge. Submission (it literally means this) to Islam is a collective social-political and religious system, where everyone is the same and removed from their ego and doubt both at the individual and social level. This is why they call it peace, but getting there and maintaining it has been historically documented with the use of a sword. The Left are proven totalitarian and every system they set up leads to the same thing. This is why there is only the Communist party in all countries that were conquered by Marxism in the east. They used violence, oppression and democide to get there. You see, you're alike in many ways, only that the advocates of Islam are actually more honest than the average authoritarian lefty.
Still, I can see you're obviously unstable, but that's OK. It's to be expected from the far-left.
You talk of lies whilst spouting them yourself. I am not far left nor a totalitarian. You clearly do not know the difference between a democratic socialist libertarian liberal, and a Marxist-Leninist communist totalitarian. I got news for you. I don't believe in any dictatorship of the proletariat, nor gulags for class enemies. Trying to suggest that people like me are one and the same as such types is either rank stupidity or gross and malicious deliberate dishonesty.. As for Islam, do you actually know any Muslims, rather than simply assuming something you heard somewhere about all of them? There are as many different interpretations of Islam as there are of Christianity. And the latter believe in total submission to the will of God as expressed in the bible too. But again there are many different interpretations of that. Yet you choose to interpret all Muslims as adherents of a totalitarian ideology whilst trying to claim I am being dishonest for accusing you of tarring all Muslims with the same brush, even as you do it again. None of which makes your claim to superior intelligence very plausible. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 19, 2023 11:07:13 GMT
Back when we were members our manufacturing industry was on its knees.
It's absurd to suggest that we aren't better off, of course we are.
The reduction in the value of the pound has made British exports more competitive.
And there are no tariff barriers there's a free trade agreement.
Can't believe you didn't realise that we have a free trade agreement with the EU.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 11:09:35 GMT
There is noting bigoted, hateful or non-factual in my post. No where have I tarred all Muslims which highlights the fact that you're unable to post like a normal human being without spewing mindless abuse and lies. What I posted about Islam is something every Muslim who understands Islam would acknowledge. Submission (it literally means this) to Islam is a collective social-political and religious system, where everyone is the same and removed from their ego and doubt both at the individual and social level. This is why they call it peace, but getting there and maintaining it has been historically documented with the use of a sword. The Left are proven totalitarian and every system they set up leads to the same thing. This is why there is only the Communist party in all countries that were conquered by Marxism in the east. They used violence, oppression and democide to get there. You see, you're alike in many ways, only that the advocates of Islam are actually more honest than the average authoritarian lefty.
Still, I can see you're obviously unstable, but that's OK. It's to be expected from the far-left.
You talk of lies whilst spouting them yourself. I am not far left nor a totalitarian. You clearly do not know the difference between a democratic socialist libertarian liberal, and a Marxist-Leninist communist totalitarian. I got news for you. I don't believe in any dictatorship of the proletariat, nor gulags for class enemies. Trying to suggest that people like me are one and the same as such types is either rank stupidity or gross and malicious deliberate dishonesty.. As for Islam, do you actually know any Muslims, rather than simply assuming something you heard somewhere about all of them? There are as many different interpretations of Islam as there are of Christianity. And the latter believe in total submission to the will of God as expressed in the bible too. But again there are many different interpretations of that. Yet you choose to interpret all Muslims as adherents of a totalitarian ideology whilst trying to claim I am being dishonest for accusing you of tarring all Muslims with the same brush, even as you do it again. None of which makes your claim to superior intelligence very plausible. Hilarious, you haven't actually said anything of worth and just scream the same garbage like a madman.
Hey kids, this is what is trying to brainwash you.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 11:13:59 GMT
You talk of lies whilst spouting them yourself. I am not far left nor a totalitarian. You clearly do not know the difference between a democratic socialist libertarian liberal, and a Marxist-Leninist communist totalitarian. I got news for you. I don't believe in any dictatorship of the proletariat, nor gulags for class enemies. Trying to suggest that people like me are one and the same as such types is either rank stupidity or gross and malicious deliberate dishonesty.. As for Islam, do you actually know any Muslims, rather than simply assuming something you heard somewhere about all of them? There are as many different interpretations of Islam as there are of Christianity. And the latter believe in total submission to the will of God as expressed in the bible too. But again there are many different interpretations of that. Yet you choose to interpret all Muslims as adherents of a totalitarian ideology whilst trying to claim I am being dishonest for accusing you of tarring all Muslims with the same brush, even as you do it again. None of which makes your claim to superior intelligence very plausible. Hilarious, you haven't actually said anything of worth and just scream the same garbage like a madman.
Hey kids, this is what is trying to brainwash you. I called you out on your lies and idiocies and you had no effective response beyond trolling. So much for your superior intelligence, lol |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 19, 2023 11:35:33 GMT
Well you say you didn't, but the effect in reality is that you did. I'll give you an easy example - for years the Fire Brigades Union campaigned for women Firefighters to have their own single sex changing rooms. Eventually their campaign was successful - however now they are being told they must share those changing rooms with people who are biologically men. Now, Women Firefighters who campaign for single sex changing rooms, are told they are 'Terfs' or 'not inclusive' - and guess who the left support. No we didn't, if you are talking about all of us. I have never used the term "terf" before and am generally rather bored with all this identity politics crap which you on the right and the faux left extreme liberal Blairite types who are mostly the supposed left wingers appear to be. I am far more concerned about excessive economic inequalities like most true left wingers are. As for whether biologically born males on the way towards sex change procedures should use female or male changing rooms, I am happy to let the workplaces decide in consultation with their workforces.Then why are those on the Left wanting Laws that mandate access dependent on how the person in question sees themselves. You keep repeating this lie that it is right-wing people who indulge in identity politics but it is not the right wing who are enacting Laws to force their version of reality on the rest of us. You are agree to believe whatever alternate reality you wish but you cannot be surprised when people kick back once you start trying to force that alternate reality on everybody else. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 19, 2023 11:44:19 GMT
Regarding Muslims, can't speak for everyone here but I do know a few Muslims and it's absolutely absurd to ignore the problems of Islamism. There's been too many terrorist plots. Too many people bullied. Too many honour killings. Too many rape victims.
Islamists need to be confronted by the majority and told fit in or get out of our society.
We will not stand for abuse.
Rape / murder a girl? Life in prison.
Plot terrorism? Life in prison.
Attempt to kill an apostate? Life in prison.
Kill an apostate? Life in prison.
And I mean WHOLE life.
Call for the killing of blasphemers? Life in prison.
Support terrorism? Life in prison.
Change the law if necessary. But stand up against modern fascism.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 11:53:33 GMT
Back when we were members our manufacturing industry was on its knees. It's absurd to suggest that we aren't better off, of course we are. The reduction in the value of the pound has made British exports more competitive. And there are no tariff barriers there's a free trade agreement. Can't believe you didn't realise that we have a free trade agreement with the EU. There is a free trade agreement in goods but it does not apply fully to services which has traditionally been our main export in recent decades. And customs barriers impose delays and a whole heap of bureaucracy, and the free trade is contingent upon companies proving that their goods conform to EU standards. All this imposes additional costs whose effects mimic those of tariffs by making it more costly to export and import. The former might have been eased by a fall in the value of the pound but this has made the latter even worse. Which does not help manufacturers needing to import raw materials. And the simple fact is that growth is lower, inflation is higher, and our economy is smaller than it would otherwise have been, as demonstrated by the ONS. But seriously, how good or bad Brexit is is surely an issue for another thread, which is why I initially ignored the topic here. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 19, 2023 11:53:57 GMT
For many left wing people it seems to be a very short step from believing a thing to feeling it should be enforced by some means. In some cases there is zero distance between the two ideas at all and as soon as the left wing person feels something in the case they start ruminating on ways to enforce it - as if this course of action follows logically from their belief.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 11:54:58 GMT
No we didn't, if you are talking about all of us. I have never used the term "terf" before and am generally rather bored with all this identity politics crap which you on the right and the faux left extreme liberal Blairite types who are mostly the supposed left wingers appear to be. I am far more concerned about excessive economic inequalities like most true left wingers are. As for whether biologically born males on the way towards sex change procedures should use female or male changing rooms, I am happy to let the workplaces decide in consultation with their workforces.Then why are those on the Left wanting Laws that mandate access dependent on how the person in question sees themselves. You keep repeating this lie that it is right-wing people who indulge in identity politics but it is not the right wing who are enacting Laws to force their version of reality on the rest of us. You are agree to believe whatever alternate reality you wish but you cannot be surprised when people kick back once you start trying to force that alternate reality on everybody else. Why are you associating me with such laws? I and my comrades are not in power. And it does seem to be you lot who do most of the obsessing about it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2023 11:58:53 GMT
Regarding Muslims, can't speak for everyone here but I do know a few Muslims and it's absolutely absurd to ignore the problems of Islamism. There's been too many terrorist plots. Too many people bullied. Too many honour killings. Too many rape victims. Islamists need to be confronted by the majority and told fit in or get out of our society. We will not stand for abuse. Rape / murder a girl? Life in prison. Plot terrorism? Life in prison. Attempt to kill an apostate? Life in prison. Kill an apostate? Life in prison. And I mean WHOLE life. Call for the killing of blasphemers? Life in prison. Support terrorism? Life in prison. Change the law if necessary. But stand up against modern fascism. The Muslims I have known have pretty much been decent people. But I cannot speak for all of them anymore than you can. And of course anyone - Muslim or not - committing such crimes should be harshly punished. Who would suggest otherwise? What there is however is a tendency to tar all Muslims with that brush which is just plain wrong. |
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Post by Orac on Nov 19, 2023 11:59:01 GMT
Then why are those on the Left wanting Laws that mandate access dependent on how the person in question sees themselves. You keep repeating this lie that it is right-wing people who indulge in identity politics but it is not the right wing who are enacting Laws to force their version of reality on the rest of us. You are agree to believe whatever alternate reality you wish but you cannot be surprised when people kick back once you start trying to force that alternate reality on everybody else. Why are you associating me with such laws? I and my comrades are not in power. And it does seem to be you lot who do most of the obsessing about it. The 'enforcement' is not coming from the elected government or laws presently, it is coming from various layers of managerial 'middle-ware' . The government are ineffectual at the moment (tory). The impetus to make laws and enforce this gibberish with fines etc is coming from the left, not the right. |
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