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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 13, 2023 17:49:12 GMT
Old-timers may recall a marathon thread in the old place that generated significant argument which, at times, became very heated. So much so, in fact that Cartertonian felt moved to remove the thread owing to the personal animosity on display. Eventually he relented and reinstated the discussion after a great deal of pruning of extraneous commentary and personal insult.
Hopefully here in the Mind Zone we won't see history repeating itself so I feel comfortable about resurrecting the topic, and indeed, expanding it with additional facts and perspectives which were not available back then.
The theme resolves around a population projection by Professor David Coleman, then Reader in Demography at Oxford, in which he attempted to estimate the ethnic composition of Britain at the middle of the century and even beyond. Coleman's findings resulted in this graphic, in which the red trendline represents the projected population according to what the ONS then termed its 'standard projection'.
Suffice to say, what Coleman proposed is that, if the ONS projections are correct, then Britain will become a country with no ethnic minority forming the majority of the population no later than 2066. Not to put to fine a point on it, by 2066 the native British will no longer form the majority.
We'll take a closer look next at what has happened since 2010 that might (or might not) result in a different conclusion.
Sensible commentary is, as always, welcome.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 13, 2023 17:58:04 GMT
I suppose the big question is does it matter?
To my mind I think it does not really matter if it is a natural event and is occurring by the choice of all those involved. However it is clearly not a natural event, it has happened despite almost every government and potential government in the last 60 years saying they would not let it happen through policies and yet the policies adopted did the opposite of what they said they were going to do. So it is either gross incompetence on a criminal level or deliberate.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 13, 2023 21:32:10 GMT
I thought we might land on the 'Cock-up or Conspiracy' debate a little later during the proceedings, but I'm a little baffled by the proposition that demographic transformation is an OK sort of thing if enough of the population being replaced say it's their choice but not if it's imposed on them.
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Post by sheepy on Nov 13, 2023 21:53:53 GMT
But apparently, we have more in employment than ever, so demographic would therefore surely be pointless?
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2023 22:39:25 GMT
But apparently, we have more in employment than ever, so demographic would therefore surely be pointless? How do you work that out?. The events of the last 5 weeks show that multiculturalism does not work, so I dont see what employment levels have to do with it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2023 22:41:18 GMT
I suppose the big question is does it matter? To my mind I think it does not really matter if it is a natural event and is occurring by the choice of all those involved. However it is clearly not a natural event, it has happened despite almost every government and potential government in the last 60 years saying they would not let it happen through policies and yet the policies adopted did the opposite of what they said they were going to do. So it is either gross incompetence on a criminal level or deliberate. of course it matters - at every election people say they dont want it. There is no choice except by those who do not believe in Democracy. |
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Post by sheepy on Nov 13, 2023 22:45:04 GMT
But apparently, we have more in employment than ever, so demographic would therefore surely be pointless? How do you work that out?. The events of the last 5 weeks show that multiculturalism does not work, so I dont see what employment levels have to do with it. I can't remember which member of the idiot fringe said it, of course it works we have more people in work than ever, unless of course you are telling us they are only white people. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2023 22:50:46 GMT
How do you work that out?. The events of the last 5 weeks show that multiculturalism does not work, so I dont see what employment levels have to do with it. I can't remember which member of the idiot fringe said it, of course it works we have more people in work than ever, unless of course you are telling us they are only white people. but what is the link? - what does employment levels have to do with integration? |
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Post by sheepy on Nov 13, 2023 22:53:25 GMT
I can't remember which member of the idiot fringe said it, of course it works we have more people in work than ever, unless of course you are telling us they are only white people. but what is the link? - what does employment levels have to do with integration? If we have the highest level of employment then we must have a form of integration, probably not in some fringe meeting but there you are. As somehow you have tried to bring integration into it. |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2023 23:02:04 GMT
but what is the link? - what does employment levels have to do with integration? If we have the highest level of employment then we must have a form of integration, probably not in some fringe meeting but there you are. As somehow you have tried to bring integration into it. we must? - on what are you basing this claim?. In the 1950's and 60's the population was much more homogenic but we had lower employment levels - so I'm struggling to see what you are basing this claim on. |
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Post by sheepy on Nov 13, 2023 23:05:12 GMT
If we have the highest level of employment then we must have a form of integration, probably not in some fringe meeting but there you are. As somehow you have tried to bring integration into it. we must? - on what are you basing this claim?. In the 1950's and 60's the population was much more homogenic but we had lower employment levels - so I'm struggling to see what you are basing this claim on. I am basing this claim on a member here telling us we have a higher rate of employment so I thought I might test this theory, not like they would make false claims when it suits would they? |
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Post by dappy on Nov 13, 2023 23:16:44 GMT
If this report, made I understand in 2013, was discussed previously as you say, not quite sure why you wish to raise it again. But OK - let’s play along.
First question
what is the definition of “white British”.
My wife for example is half German. Does that make my kids “white British” or “not white British”.
Second question
If they are “white British” their current partners are 1) antipodean 2) half Irish half West Indian 3) Indian. Who knows what will happen with them but would any of those partners count as “white British”
Third question
All six of those people seem fine young people and I suspect any kids would be born in the UK and have good upbringing. Would any resulting kids count as white British
Fourth question
In a parallel universe none of those relationships work and my kids end up with “white british” partners, would any kids here count as white British
Fifth question
If the answer is different for Q3 and Q4, what difference does this categorization make to anybody or society in general
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2023 23:20:02 GMT
we must? - on what are you basing this claim?. In the 1950's and 60's the population was much more homogenic but we had lower employment levels - so I'm struggling to see what you are basing this claim on. I am basing this claim on a member here telling us we have a higher rate of employment so I thought I might test this theory, not like they would make false claims when it suits would they? yes we do have a higher level of employment - but you seem to be rather shy about explaining what that has to do with integration. In fact, as a direct correlation, a rising employment level corresponds with less integration. |
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Post by sheepy on Nov 13, 2023 23:23:23 GMT
I am basing this claim on a member here telling us we have a higher rate of employment so I thought I might test this theory, not like they would make false claims when it suits would they? yes we do have a higher level of employment - but you seem to be rather shy about explaining what that has to do with integration. In fact, as a direct correlation, a rising employment level corresponds with less integration. Oh I see it was you then, can you show how this rise in employment corresponds with less integration? Or are you now saying we have only employed more white people so having left everyone else less integrated? |
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Post by Pacifico on Nov 13, 2023 23:32:55 GMT
yes we do have a higher level of employment - but you seem to be rather shy about explaining what that has to do with integration. In fact, as a direct correlation, a rising employment level corresponds with less integration. Oh I see it was you then, can you show how this rise in employment corresponds with less integration? Or are you now saying we have only employed more white people so having left everyone else less integrated? are you really trying to claim that the UK is more integrated now than it was in the 1960's? |
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