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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 10:30:32 GMT
Reform are an obvious threat to the Tories, but Starmer will be very aware that lots of former Labour supporters in red wall constituencies voted Tory in 2019 and time and again the main reason given was immigration. Many red wall constituencies in the Midlands and the north are little more than foreign enclaves and people are sick of it. Starmer will try to avoid any discussion about it because he is very pro EU, pro immigration. Reform UK may be an obvious threat to the Tories, but Starmer knows very well that it's also a threat in many Labour constituencies. |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 4, 2024 11:01:25 GMT
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 4, 2024 11:28:41 GMT
Well they would say that, wouldn't they? Well it effectively is in seats where Labour are the main challengers to the Tories. Because Reform have no hope of taking enough votes from the Tories to win seats themselves, but if they take enough votes from the Tories to reduce their votes to a lower level than Labour, they effectively let Labour win by damaging the Tories. A vote for Reform is not going to result in a Reform MP. But it might result in a Labour MP when you could have had a Tory one. Given that there is no functional difference, I'm not seeing the loss. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 4, 2024 11:38:50 GMT
the critical difference between UKIP and Reform is the way money and candidate selection works. UKIP is / was a party created with members and a system of candidate selection akin to labour / tory / lib dem. The Brexit Party was at one point proposed as a limited company limited by guarantee with no shares. It is actually as inspection of companies house records show a limited company originally set up with one share, later expanded to five. It has a couple of directors that NOW include Farage but for quite a while has only one director and one shareholder. The company articles of association make it clear the company exists to fund and stand candidates to political office All of this is above board and legal The point is, to stand under the banner of a labour or tory party you join the party, fight your way past a selection panel of fellow members and win the selection. At this point the party’s appointed national nominating officer countersigns your electoral nomination confirming the party approval of your status as a party candidate and your right to be identified as such on advertising and the ballot paper With The Brexit Party (sorry, Reform) the national nominating officer is appointed by the person with overall control and candidates are chosen by that same person. You cannot be a member of the party. There is no such thing You can only be a supporter. You get to be a supporter by paying the company a chunk of wonga. I think the min is £25 You have no rights as a supporter and no input to running the originally one, now five, person band. As i said this is all totally legit under Blair’s PPERA 2000 It’s just that, well, i’m not quite sure what Richard Tice’s stsnding in the ltd company actually is …. To st What is "Blair’s PPERA 2000"? Sorry. The Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act of 2000 abbreviated PPERA(2000) on the electoral commission website snd other related sites discussing legal obligations put upon political Parties, and passed on the quiet by Blair’s shysters of that year. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Jan 4, 2024 11:48:35 GMT
Reform are an obvious threat to the Tories, but Starmer will be very aware that lots of former Labour supporters in red wall constituencies voted Tory in 2019 and time and again the main reason given was immigration. Many red wall constituencies in the Midlands and the north are little more than foreign enclaves and people are sick of it. Starmer will try to avoid any discussion about it because he is very pro EU, pro immigration. Reform UK may be an obvious threat to the Tories, but Starmer knows very well that it's also a threat in many Labour constituencies. I see your point but i suspect myself almost all of those 2019 tory gains were a direct result of Labour exploitation of Clegg’s diabolical fixed term parliaments act to create a zombie parliament under Theresa May, unable to achieve anything thanks to the collusion of the speaker. I rather suspect the collusion that has seen Fishy Rishi given the PM’s slot without the party’s own due process being followed, coming so soon after the party’s due process so clearly told the greasy dago to take a hike, will cause the utter opposite of the 2019 result out of sheer vexation |
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Post by jonksy on Jan 4, 2024 14:24:24 GMT
We are miles above them and the French zany. Your beloved EUSSR is dieing on it's feet. No wonder how the right is becoming their main obstacle. Not according to even the Right Wing Daily Express. As usual you just make it up. If that works for you that's great, but don't expect me to believe you. UK just dodged huge recession ‘engulfing Eurozone' - and here is why it's thanks to Brexit.
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Post by jonksy on Jan 4, 2024 14:26:43 GMT
'Preposterous!' Remainers shut down over claims Brexit has failed as France on brink.
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Post by jonksy on Jan 4, 2024 14:29:28 GMT
Brussels plans EUSSR power grab - as Eurosceptic rebellion even hits Belgium.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 14:35:01 GMT
Reform are an obvious threat to the Tories, but Starmer will be very aware that lots of former Labour supporters in red wall constituencies voted Tory in 2019 and time and again the main reason given was immigration. Many red wall constituencies in the Midlands and the north are little more than foreign enclaves and people are sick of it. Starmer will try to avoid any discussion about it because he is very pro EU, pro immigration. Reform UK may be an obvious threat to the Tories, but Starmer knows very well that it's also a threat in many Labour constituencies. I see your point but i suspect myself almost all of those 2019 tory gains were a direct result of Labour exploitation of Clegg’s diabolical fixed term parliaments act to create a zombie parliament under Theresa May, unable to achieve anything thanks to the collusion of the speaker. I rather suspect the collusion that has seen Fishy Rishi given the PM’s slot without the party’s own due process being followed, coming so soon after the party’s due process so clearly told the greasy dago to take a hike, will cause the utter opposite of the 2019 result out of sheer vexation I agree with the points you make, but I disagree with your conclusion. The way Sunak was appointed left a bad taste in Tory voters mouths let alone Labour voters, and as much as I dislike Sunak I cant bring myself to vote for Starmer because under all the hype, and he will do his best to avoid talking about this, but he remains a pro EU, pro immigration, woke, left wing socialist and that's the last thing this country needs. Sunak has ruled out a spring election and has said the election will be towards the end of the year, this will worry Labour because indications suggest interest rates will fall and the economy will pick up this year, and of course Sunak will make a big thing about reducing the number of illegals crossing the channel. If it were a two horse race I wouldn't be putting my money on Labour that's for sure, but it isn't a two horse race is it. I think behind closed doors the Tories will very concerned about Reform UK, and Starmer will be concerned about former Labour voters in red wall constituencies who voted for Boris in 2019 turning to Reform rather than Labour. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 4, 2024 15:56:08 GMT
I see your point but i suspect myself almost all of those 2019 tory gains were a direct result of Labour exploitation of Clegg’s diabolical fixed term parliaments act to create a zombie parliament under Theresa May, unable to achieve anything thanks to the collusion of the speaker. I rather suspect the collusion that has seen Fishy Rishi given the PM’s slot without the party’s own due process being followed, coming so soon after the party’s due process so clearly told the Italian to take a hike, will cause the utter opposite of the 2019 result out of sheer vexation I agree with the points you make, but I disagree with your conclusion. The way Sunak was appointed left a bad taste in Tory voters mouths let alone Labour voters, and as much as I dislike Sunak I cant bring myself to vote for Starmer because under all the hype, and he will do his best to avoid talking about this, but he remains a pro EU, pro immigration, woke, left wing socialist and that's the last thing this country needs. Sunak has ruled out a spring election and has said the election will be towards the end of the year, this will worry Labour because indications suggest interest rates will fall and the economy will pick up this year, and of course Sunak will make a big thing about reducing the number of illegals crossing the channel. If it were a two horse race I wouldn't be putting my money on Labour that's for sure, but it isn't a two horse race is it. I think behind closed doors the Tories will very concerned about Reform UK, and Starmer will be concerned about former Labour voters in red wall constituencies who voted for Boris in 2019 turning to Reform rather than Labour.
I agree. BTW, according to the pundits, a November election is looking most likely.
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Post by Red Rackham on Jan 4, 2024 16:06:49 GMT
I agree with the points you make, but I disagree with your conclusion. The way Sunak was appointed left a bad taste in Tory voters mouths let alone Labour voters, and as much as I dislike Sunak I cant bring myself to vote for Starmer because under all the hype, and he will do his best to avoid talking about this, but he remains a pro EU, pro immigration, woke, left wing socialist and that's the last thing this country needs. Sunak has ruled out a spring election and has said the election will be towards the end of the year, this will worry Labour because indications suggest interest rates will fall and the economy will pick up this year, and of course Sunak will make a big thing about reducing the number of illegals crossing the channel. If it were a two horse race I wouldn't be putting my money on Labour that's for sure, but it isn't a two horse race is it. I think behind closed doors the Tories will very concerned about Reform UK, and Starmer will be concerned about former Labour voters in red wall constituencies who voted for Boris in 2019 turning to Reform rather than Labour. I agree. BTW, according to the pundits, a November election is looking most likely.
Listened to some political hack earlier who said a November election will be bad news for Labour because kids wont go out if it's cold. LOL. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Jan 4, 2024 16:13:52 GMT
LOL!  |
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Post by see2 on Jan 4, 2024 16:16:09 GMT
Not according to even the Right Wing Daily Express. As usual you just make it up. If that works for you that's great, but don't expect me to believe you. UK just dodged huge recession ‘engulfing Eurozone' - and here is why it's thanks to Brexit.
The UK is playing catch up with the EU. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 4, 2024 16:27:01 GMT
Reform are an obvious threat to the Tories, but Starmer will be very aware that lots of former Labour supporters in red wall constituencies voted Tory in 2019 and time and again the main reason given was immigration. Many red wall constituencies in the Midlands and the north are little more than foreign enclaves and people are sick of it. Starmer will try to avoid any discussion about it because he is very pro EU, pro immigration. Reform UK may be an obvious threat to the Tories, but Starmer knows very well that it's also a threat in many Labour constituencies. I think labour supporters have more pressing concerns at this time. The NHS, the cost of living crises. etc. Most just want this lot of Tories gone. They wont risk losing the election by voting for Reform. |
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Post by zanygame on Jan 4, 2024 16:28:13 GMT
I agree. BTW, according to the pundits, a November election is looking most likely.
Listened to some political hack earlier who said a November election will be bad news for Labour because kids wont go out if it's cold. LOL. LOl. It would be the grandad Tory voters who stay in. And not because its cold. |
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