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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 2, 2023 14:43:53 GMT
As UKIP proved, they don't need seats to be hugely influential.
Since Labour and the Tories are functionally identical, I now see no risk in voting Reform.
Which I shall.
And so you should if they are the closest to your political viewpoint. One of the biggest criticisms of our current system is that it pushes people to vote tactically rather than by conviction. Obviously as someone who leans centre left, I will be delighted if the right and centre right vote splits this time around especially as I think centre left and left voters - more than their political leaders - are minded to vote more tactically than before for whichever candidate is most likely to kick the tory out. Yep, 'twas ever thus. Except this time round it will make no difference whatsoever who wins. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 2, 2023 14:50:35 GMT
VAT is a pretty good tax as on the whole it's pretty discretionary, easy to administer and encourages saving. are you MAD Have you ever run s business that had to pay it ? VAT is a tax that every business above a certain turnover has to suffer Purchase Tax was a tax hardly anyone had to bother with except fir the companies that sold the items it was imposed on to members of the public. As such the ratio of amount of money raised to number if people involved collecting it was about fifty fold better that VAT’s infamous requirement that almost every business register and submit details of outputs versus inputs quarterly The VAT men KNEW this was a barking mad waste of everyones time so they brought out a fixed deduction scheme that said ‘we know you’re losing money doing this fucking paperwork, so how about we pretend you owe us three or four times what you ACTUALLY owe us, pay us that snd we will just rubber stamp your VAT paperwork …. In the early 90’s a builder i asked to build my extension gave me two quotes. One was for his brother’s VAT registered company to order all the materials, and do all the work, and the other was for his NOT vat registered company to do the work with materials i ordered. The difference in total price was over five grand for a job totalling £19k. Yes prices gave risen a bit But the key issue was the lower total quote worked by the builder giving me an itemised materials list and delivery schedule which I would take to a builders merchant and order, with a whopping discount for payment on or just before delivery instead of giving the builder trade credit. The second and key critical factor was the builder was quoting me for man hours of labour NOT including parts. By trading in this manner he was able to keep his turnover down as the materials were costed separately. As a result he was abke to deregister for VAT. ‘But does this not mean you lose input tax deduction’ ‘Yes’ he said ‘but the time i save makes up for that I sat and thought about my own company. And then I deregistered. And instantly gained thousands from not wasting my time ! |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 2, 2023 14:53:51 GMT
Labour have not yet revealed their policies, as we get closer to the election they will be challenged and provided they are asked sufficiently probing questions then the differences will become apparent. Or the lack thereof.
Not that their policies mean much since they behave exactly the same once in power.
What ever policies they make it wll all change whithin a few days. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 2, 2023 14:56:38 GMT
VAT is a pretty good tax as on the whole it's pretty discretionary, easy to administer and encourages saving. are you MAD Have you ever run s business that had to pay it ? VAT is a tax that every business above a certain turnover has to suffer Purchase Tax was a tax hardly anyone had to bother with except fir the companies that sold the items it was imposed on to members of the public. As such the ratio of amount of money raised to number if people involved collecting it was about fifty fold better that VAT’s infamous requirement that almost every business register and submit details of outputs versus inputs quarterly The VAT men KNEW this was a barking mad waste of everyones time so they brought out a fixed deduction scheme that said ‘we know you’re losing money doing this fucking paperwork, so how about we pretend you owe us three or four times what you ACTUALLY owe us, pay us that snd we will just rubber stamp your VAT paperwork …. In the early 90’s a builder i asked to build my extension gave me two quotes. One was for his brother’s VAT registered company to order all the materials, and do all the work, and the other was for his NOT vat registered company to do the work with materials i ordered. The difference in total price was over five grand for a job totalling £19k. Yes prices gave risen a bit But the key issue was the lower total quote worked by the builder giving me an itemised materials list and delivery schedule which I would take to a builders merchant and order, with a whopping discount for payment on or just before delivery instead of giving the builder trade credit. The second and key critical factor was the builder was quoting me for man hours of labour NOT including parts. By trading in this manner he was able to keep his turnover down as the materials were costed separately. As a result he was abke to deregister for VAT. ‘But does this not mean you lose input tax deduction’ ‘Yes’ he said ‘but the time i save makes up for that I sat and thought about my own company. And then I deregistered. And instantly gained thousands from not wasting my time ! I disagree and I ran a VAT registered business for about 10 years.
I didn't pay VAT, my customers did. I reclaimed the VAT on every purchase and saved tens of thousands of £s over the years.
And the paperwork was a piece of piss (and largely automated since I plugged everything into a spreadsheet).
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 2, 2023 15:02:42 GMT
Or the lack thereof.
Not that their policies mean much since they behave exactly the same once in power.
What ever policies they make it wll all change whithin a few days. Well quite.
The Tories had an 80 seat majority. They could have done anything that their voters wanted. But they didn't.
They didn't stop illegal immigration. And nor will Labour. They still kowtow to the EU. And so will Labour. They still allow lefty lawyers to frustrate govt policy. And so will Labour. They're still committed to the bogus "Net Zero". And so are Labour. They support 15 minute cities enforced by a surveillance state. And so do Labour. They do what they're told by the WEF, the WHO etc. etc. And so will Labour.
Democracy is an illusion.
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Post by johnofgwent on Dec 2, 2023 15:54:21 GMT
are you MAD Have you ever run s business that had to pay it ? VAT is a tax that every business above a certain turnover has to suffer Purchase Tax was a tax hardly anyone had to bother with except fir the companies that sold the items it was imposed on to members of the public. As such the ratio of amount of money raised to number if people involved collecting it was about fifty fold better that VAT’s infamous requirement that almost every business register and submit details of outputs versus inputs quarterly The VAT men KNEW this was a barking mad waste of everyones time so they brought out a fixed deduction scheme that said ‘we know you’re losing money doing this fucking paperwork, so how about we pretend you owe us three or four times what you ACTUALLY owe us, pay us that snd we will just rubber stamp your VAT paperwork …. In the early 90’s a builder i asked to build my extension gave me two quotes. One was for his brother’s VAT registered company to order all the materials, and do all the work, and the other was for his NOT vat registered company to do the work with materials i ordered. The difference in total price was over five grand for a job totalling £19k. Yes prices gave risen a bit But the key issue was the lower total quote worked by the builder giving me an itemised materials list and delivery schedule which I would take to a builders merchant and order, with a whopping discount for payment on or just before delivery instead of giving the builder trade credit. The second and key critical factor was the builder was quoting me for man hours of labour NOT including parts. By trading in this manner he was able to keep his turnover down as the materials were costed separately. As a result he was abke to deregister for VAT. ‘But does this not mean you lose input tax deduction’ ‘Yes’ he said ‘but the time i save makes up for that I sat and thought about my own company. And then I deregistered. And instantly gained thousands from not wasting my time ! I disagree and I ran a VAT registered business for about 10 years.
I didn't pay VAT, my customers did. I reclaimed the VAT on every purchase and saved tens of thousands of £s over the years.
And the paperwork was a piece of piss (and largely automated since I plugged everything into a spreadsheet).
Ah yes I forgot As you say, you didn’t pay VAT your customers did I had two distinctly different customer bases For most it was just a strange anomaly that one day my invoices included VAT and the next didn’t. Until they found they couldn’t get a VAT Input tax deduction from my bills. But to my other customer base, joe public…. I was 17.5% cheaper than the competition. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 2, 2023 16:15:54 GMT
No you weren't. Since you couldn't recoup VAT paid, your operating costs would have been higher.
Fortunately, I didn't deal direct with Joe Public and so the VAT issue simply wasn't an issue for me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2023 20:15:37 GMT
What ever policies they make it wll all change whithin a few days. Well quite.
The Tories had an 80 seat majority. They could have done anything that their voters wanted. But they didn't.
They didn't stop illegal immigration. And nor will Labour. They still kowtow to the EU. And so will Labour. They still allow lefty lawyers to frustrate govt policy. And so will Labour. They're still committed to the bogus "Net Zero". And so are Labour. They support 15 minute cities enforced by a surveillance state. And so do Labour. They do what they're told by the WEF, the WHO etc. etc. And so will Labour.
Democracy is an illusion.
I do not agree with every word and syllable of the above. As a moderate (you would probablt prefer to regard me as extreme) lefty you couldn't really expect me to. My main difference of opinion from you is that I don't actually believe, as you seem to, that the left are the ones actually in control here. Indeed, we are viewed as just another potential threat to the establishmentarian powers that be. But I agree with the central premise of what you are saying. Democracy here, especially under our current voting system, is a sham. Because it does not matter who you vote for or who I vote for, the Establishment is bound to get in. The Establishment always wins. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Dec 3, 2023 20:57:12 GMT
...My main difference of opinion from you is that I don't actually believe, as you seem to, that the left are the ones actually in control here... I never suggested that they were and I don't think we have any fundamental difference of opinion here. You tend to assume that I disagree with you which I don't when you're being sensible. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 3, 2023 21:18:02 GMT
What ever policies they make it wll all change whithin a few days. Well quite.
The Tories had an 80 seat majority. They could have done anything that their voters wanted. But they didn't.
They didn't stop illegal immigration. And nor will Labour. They still kowtow to the EU. And so will Labour. They still allow lefty lawyers to frustrate govt policy. And so will Labour. They're still committed to the bogus "Net Zero". And so are Labour. They support 15 minute cities enforced by a surveillance state. And so do Labour. They do what they're told by the WEF, the WHO etc. etc. And so will Labour.
Democracy is an illusion.
No, but your post is. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 3, 2023 21:23:55 GMT
Yes on domestic fuel bills. IIRC, the Tories were speculating on raising it from 11% to 15%, NL reduced it to 5%, the lowest available under EU law. Sorry about the late reply, circumstances. So you agree, Labour were unable to reduce VAT further because we were in the EU. Thank heavens we're out of it eh. Apologies unnecessary btw.  Well there was no option to paying Purchase Tax which VAT replaced. So what's your point? |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 8, 2023 19:01:47 GMT
Reform UK’s surging support could cost Tories up to 35 seats.
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Post by Pacifico on Dec 16, 2023 22:58:03 GMT
This is why support for Reform is surging.
Only 4 years ago he was an ex-Minister in a 'Conservative' government and standing for leadership of the Party.
Now he is begging for a job in a Labour government..
Anyone who has voted Tory in the past 13 years has been conned.
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Post by see2 on Dec 16, 2023 23:35:18 GMT
Or the lack thereof.
Not that their policies mean much since they behave exactly the same once in power.
What ever policies they make it wll all change whithin a few days. They may well, if the books show things worse than expected. |
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Post by see2 on Dec 16, 2023 23:44:26 GMT
This is why support for Reform is surging. Only 4 years ago he was an ex-Minister in a 'Conservative' government and standing for leadership of the Party. Now he is begging for a job in a Labour government.. Anyone who has voted Tory in the past 13 years has been conned. I would fully expect some Centre-Right Tories to be comfortable with many of the aims of a Centre-Left Labour party. My position is Centre-Left and I have voted for PM who I believed was a Centre-Right Tory. Your deliberate blurring of the differences between the parties is motivated by the Fact that there is unlikely to be a hard-right government in the near future. |
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