|
Post by see2 on Nov 7, 2022 15:41:43 GMT
Switzerland will never be a member state of the EU, never in a million years. Their system of direct democracy in which the people have the power, frightens the unelected eurocrats in Brussels to death. Switzerland with a population of 8.5million, can get away with direct democracy.
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Nov 7, 2022 15:44:40 GMT
The reality is Switzerland isn't a fully paid up member of the EU; yet is considered the 'richest country in Europe'. That defies popular opinion of EU-loyalists. Nope, just look at the history of the place. Free from fighting or being attacked and independently dealing with Germany during WWII.
|
|
|
Post by Tinculin on Nov 7, 2022 19:01:44 GMT
Switzerland does very well, but is the richest country in Europe according to what metric?
By national GDP = Germany, UK, France By GDP per Capital = Luxembourg, Norway, Switzerland
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Nov 7, 2022 21:11:45 GMT
The reality is Switzerland isn't a fully paid up member of the EU; yet is considered the 'richest country in Europe'. That defies popular opinion of EU-loyalists. Nope, just look at the history of the place. Free from fighting or being attacked and independently dealing with Germany during WWII. ... and yet it still isn't a member of the EU and shows that European life outside the EU is anything but Armageddon.
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Nov 7, 2022 22:33:04 GMT
... and yet it still isn't a member of the EU and shows that European life outside the EU is anything but Armageddon. Hmm, many commentators attribute Switzerland's success in large part to its political stability. Compare with the UK - divided and on the verge of breaking up. The UK is the anti-Switzerland. Cheers, Nigel!
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Nov 8, 2022 6:28:42 GMT
I'm not sure how it can be 'well said' if it's factually incorrect. It's difficult to find two sources that agree with each other on which is the richest country, but I've not come across one yet that says Switzerland is the richest in Europe. Not sure it is factually incorrect. Let's rephrase it though on a point of semantics; Switzerland is considered by some to be one of the richest nations, if not the richest nation in Europe, despite not being a member of the EU.
|
|
|
Post by buccaneer on Nov 8, 2022 6:33:56 GMT
... and yet it still isn't a member of the EU and shows that European life outside the EU is anything but Armageddon. Hmm, many commentators attribute Switzerland's success in large part to its political stability. Compare with the UK - divided and on the verge of breaking up. The UK is the anti-Switzerland. Cheers, Nigel! And yet, it still successfully demonstrates life lives on outside of the EU. The UK's internal problems don't don't negate the fact life lives on outside the EU. The main reason why the UK is divided is because EU-loyalists cannot let go of the UK's choice to leave the EU, which suitably for them destabilises the politics of the UK. If they can build a bridge the UK could be as politically stable as Switzerland - but I don't think they actually want that to happen. Brexit must be proven to be wrong - by hook or by crook.
|
|
|
Post by steppenwolf on Nov 8, 2022 7:09:19 GMT
Please. We have already established that Switzerland is part of the the Single Market. You've admitted that it pays into the EU budget; that it follows FoM rules; that it adopts EU standards. All you're telling us now and all you can tell us is that Switzerland has limited participation since it is not an EU member. What you fail to understand is that this limited participation does not mean that Switzerland is not in the Single Market. On the contrary, it means that Switzerland is in the Single Market but in a limited way. This is the sort of simplistic idea that leads our MPs to think that they can simply join the Single Market and that will get us free trade. It will, but it comes with a lot of "baggage". It combines free movement of goods, capital, services, and people, known collectively as the "four freedoms". Whereas a bilateral deal simply gives you the ability to trade goods tariff free. That's all the UK people signed up to when we joined the Common Market - the rest of the nonsense was added by our government without any permission from the electorate. Switzerland is NOT in the Single Market. You can tell that it's not in the SM because it trades via bilateral deals which don't involve FoM or blanket alignment with EU regulations. Most international trade is done via bilateral deals, either WTO or bespoke. That's what we should have negotiated when we left the EU. Switzerland has a better deal than we have. The problem is that most people - including our MPs - don't know what the EU is, or even what the single market and customs union are. That's why we get shafted whenever we get into negotiations with the EU Commission. They run rings round our negotiators.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 7:19:49 GMT
Please. We have already established that Switzerland is part of the the Single Market. You've admitted that it pays into the EU budget; that it follows FoM rules; that it adopts EU standards. All you're telling us now and all you can tell us is that Switzerland has limited participation since it is not an EU member. What you fail to understand is that this limited participation does not mean that Switzerland is not in the Single Market. On the contrary, it means that Switzerland is in the Single Market but in a limited way. This is the sort of simplistic idea that leads our MPs to think that they can simply join the Single Market and that will get us free trade. It will, but it comes with a lot of "baggage". It combines free movement of goods, capital, services, and people, known collectively as the "four freedoms". Whereas a bilateral deal simply gives you the ability to trade goods tariff free. That's all the UK people signed up to when we joined the Common Market - the rest of the nonsense was added by our government without any permission from the electorate. Switzerland is NOT in the Single Market. You can tell that it's not in the SM because it trades via bilateral deals which don't involve FoM or blanket alignment with EU regulations. Most international trade is done via bilateral deals, either WTO or bespoke. That's what we should have negotiated when we left the EU. Switzerland has a better deal than we have. The problem is that most people - including our MPs - don't know what the EU is, or even what the single market and customs union are. That's why we get shafted whenever we get into negotiations with the EU Commission. They run rings round our negotiators. Simplistic idea my foot! Will you stop prattling on about your own crappy interpretation of facts and cut the bulls**t already. Just give a link to an article, a cut-and-paste of an article even, that supports your claim that Switzerland is not in the EU Single Market.
|
|
|
Post by steppenwolf on Nov 8, 2022 8:11:19 GMT
SWitzerland's relationship with the EU is entirely made up of bespoke agreements for trade and various other things. It is not in the Single Market. If you want to look at it in a simplistic way you could say it has "access to the SM" but that confuses the SM with simply a trading agreement - which is not what it is. If Switzerland had wanted to be in the SM they would have voted yes to the referendum about joining the EEA - but they rejected it.
|
|
|
Post by Dubdrifter on Nov 8, 2022 8:45:25 GMT
... and yet it still isn't a member of the EU and shows that European life outside the EU is anything but Armageddon. Hmm, many commentators attribute Switzerland's success in large part to its political stability. Compare with the UK - divided and on the verge of breaking up. The UK is the anti-Switzerland. Cheers, Nigel!I think the whole of Europe should be very grateful to Nigel Farage … he bravely stood up alone for years and exposed the corruption, greed and waste … and the duplicity of the EU’s fake pseudo-democracy. He inspired a movement of rebellion against the Dark Side of the Force. …. yet Labour are still too dumb to see it for what the EU REALLY is … and will still happily deliver us at spear-point into that pit again … to be torn apart and be dismembered. The British Electorate must NEVER make that mistake. Labour and Starmer are as bad a set of snakes as the Tories … NEVER EVER VOTE FOR ANY OF THESE PARTIES YOU TRUE BRITONS!! Stand firm and don’t give in … ignore the MSM and BBC screaming and their fake far right hysteria … vote for FARAGE or similar … VOTE for real Brexit … for real change and real UK united control. Real economist expertise, real Law and Order, real ideas and sensible environment policies. Real Common Sense. We have had enough of this 💩 and collective idiocy!🙄
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2022 9:27:20 GMT
SWitzerland's relationship with the EU is entirely made up of bespoke agreements for trade and various other things. It is not in the Single Market. If you want to look at it in a simplistic way you could say it has "access to the SM" but that confuses the SM with simply a trading agreement - which is not what it is. If Switzerland had wanted to be in the SM they would have voted yes to the referendum about joining the EEA - but they rejected it. That's what you say. What everyone else says is that Switzerland is part of the Single Market. EEA countries are part of the Single Market, for that matter. The UK has access to the Single Market via its FTA with the EU. Switzerland is part of the Single Market via its bilateral treaties. The difference is that the UK does not pay the EU anything; the UK does not follow EU standards; the UK does not allow FOM; the UK does not follow EU rules. Switzerland does all those things. EU Single Market is all about freedom of movement of goods, services, capital and people. And Switzerland voted in September 2020 to retain FOM for EU citizens. Go figure! We both agree on the substance -- Switzerland pays the EU; Switzerland follows EU standards; implements FoM; but you can't seem to get it into your head that those are the criteria for being part of the Single Market. Why and how can you not just give an article, an excerpt from an article, a government publication -- whatever -- that says categorically that Switzerland is not part of the Single Market?
|
|
|
Post by Vinny on Nov 8, 2022 10:20:00 GMT
Switzerland is not part of the single market, it merely has free trade agreements with the EU.
|
|
|
Post by steppenwolf on Nov 8, 2022 10:46:32 GMT
That's what you say. What everyone else says is that Switzerland is part of the Single Market. EEA countries are part of the Single Market, for that matter. The UK has access to the Single Market via its FTA with the EU. Switzerland is part of the Single Market via its bilateral treaties. The difference is that the UK does not pay the EU anything; the UK does not follow EU standards; the UK does not allow FOM; the UK does not follow EU rules. Switzerland does all those things. That's just nonsense. You don't become part of the SM via bilateral treaties. Bilateral treaties on trade remove the need for joining the SM. You're totally confused. Like I said before google is bad way of trying to find information about a subject you don't know anything about. And EEA countries are in the SM - that's what the EEA is. You sign up to it and the SM comes as part of the package. That's what Switzerland didn't want. That's why they spent many years negotiating bespoke bilateral deals. They could have joined the EEA just by signing up. I suggest you stop posting crap and do some reading.
|
|
|
Post by Einhorn on Nov 8, 2022 11:18:48 GMT
Hmm, many commentators attribute Switzerland's success in large part to its political stability. Compare with the UK - divided and on the verge of breaking up. The UK is the anti-Switzerland. Cheers, Nigel! And yet, it still successfully demonstrates life lives on outside of the EU. The UK's internal problems don't don't negate the fact life lives on outside the EU. The main reason why the UK is divided is because EU-loyalists cannot let go of the UK's choice to leave the EU, which suitably for them destabilises the politics of the UK. If they can build a bridge the UK could be as politically stable as Switzerland - but I don't think they actually want that to happen. Brexit must be proven to be wrong - by hook or by crook. Those who think Brexit was wrong aren't required to stop saying they think it was wrong. As has been pointed out by others, when a political party wins an election, the losing side doesn't say 'fair enough, you won't hear from us again until another 5 years when the next election is held'. They form the opposition and continue with their opposition to the government's policies. We oppose Brexit and we're not going away. Especially now that the Tories are on their way out. For the first time in years, there is a real prospect of the UK rejoining the CU and the SM.
|
|