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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2023 5:20:13 GMT
We agree the players were protesting against racial prejudice. They're being paid loads of money to push the identity politics narrative. Lefties rely on brainwashing kids and taking money from billionaires, and it's no different here. That's all there is to it. A footballer doesn't actually have an opinion outside of kicking a ball and favourite sports car.
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Post by Dogburger on Oct 20, 2023 5:48:09 GMT
Southgate got his position because he was PC not on his average management record. Average? He got England to their first major final since '66 and only lost on penalties. He also got them to the 2018 WC semis and their longest ever undefeated run of 22 games. Two competitions we should have won had the manager been a bit more adventurous . He really has been given all the tools he could have wanted to succeed but fails every time against the better sides . Seeding teams in qualifying and then again in finals group matches means we can now hardly fail to make at least the quarter finals of major competitions . Thats when the manager earns his wages and thats when Southgate's negative tactics get found out . We do now have the emergence of Bellingham though (an absolute god of a footballer) so we might see some progress but it will be in spite of Southgate not because of him
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Post by Bentley on Oct 20, 2023 8:48:07 GMT
There we have it . Tow the woke line or you are out . Wont take the knee ? Throw him out if the team . More nonsense - We are not talking here about taking the knee, we are debating the issue of racism in football, and in society. Southgate speaks out against racism, as do all of the England football team, nothing to do with taking the knee. I stated that people with racist views / opinions are not welcome as soccer players, but you somehow interpreted this to mean people who refuse to "take the knee". Stop wriggling and read the words in the post , not in your head . The post offers one example not all examples . Also you need to get your story right . Taking the knee was supposed to be a gesture against racism ( according to you ) . Now you deny it . Define racism .Would a claim that that we need to reduce migrants be racist? Maybe a claim that white peoples owe black people nothing ? Claiming white privilege is reverse racism ? Why stop at racism? Maybe any kind of perceived bigotry ?
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Post by vlk on Oct 20, 2023 9:21:52 GMT
In some ways things have moved forward. These days disasters like the Bradford-fire and Hillsborough are unthinkable.
Bradford especially beggars belief. Wooden stands and smoking wasn't forbidden.
Btw, as English clubs were banned for 5 years due to the Heysel stadium-disaster and that ban stuck why was the English NT allowed to participate in foreign competitions? Hooliganism was just as much of a problem with the NT as it was with clubs.
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Post by see2 on Oct 20, 2023 10:10:54 GMT
Southgate speaks out against racism, as do all of the England football team, nothing to do with taking the knee. For money, like most whores. If you're being paid millions and you want to be patted on the head you'll support anything you're told to support. Like you said before, there is no choice in the matter. Do you recognise any racism against coloured people in yourself?
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Post by see2 on Oct 20, 2023 10:14:17 GMT
Average? He got England to their first major final since '66 and only lost on penalties. He also got them to the 2018 WC semis and their longest ever undefeated run of 22 games. Two competitions we should have won had the manager been a bit more adventurous . He really has been given all the tools he could have wanted to succeed but fails every time against the better sides . Seeding teams in qualifying and then again in finals group matches means we can now hardly fail to make at least the quarter finals of major competitions . Thats when the manager earns his wages and thats when Southgate's negative tactics get found out . We do now have the emergence of Bellingham though (an absolute god of a footballer) so we might see some progress but it will be in spite of Southgate not because of him Spectators often believe they know best.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2023 10:38:26 GMT
More nonsense - We are not talking here about taking the knee, we are debating the issue of racism in football, and in society. Southgate speaks out against racism, as do all of the England football team, nothing to do with taking the knee. I stated that people with racist views / opinions are not welcome as soccer players, but you somehow interpreted this to mean people who refuse to "take the knee". Stop wriggling and read the words in the post , not in your head . The post offers one example not all examples . Also you need to get your story right . Taking the knee was supposed to be a gesture against racism ( according to you ) . Now you deny it . Define racism .Would a claim that that we need to reduce migrants be racist? Maybe a claim that white peoples owe black people nothing ? Claiming white privilege is reverse racism ? Why stop at racism? Maybe any kind of perceived bigotry ? Sorry, but your posts are becoming more and more delusional "Taking The Knee" IS a gesture against prejudice and racism, and I have never denied it. Racism or prejudice in action is having opinions that people of a different colour, ethnicity or race are inferior, and that such people should be treated differently, or that its ok to discriminate against such people, or that its ok to use offensive or abusive comments and language aimed at such people, refering to the fact that they are different. "Taking The Knee" or refusing to "Take The Knee" does not come into it, many people do not feel the need to make the gesture, but it does not mean they are racists. Political opinions WOULD fall into the racist bracket if you feel we should halt all immigration because you believe coloured people are inferior, but political opinions are NOT racist if you simply believe that too many people are coming into the country. A soccer player who believes immigration is too high has nothing to fear - a soccer player who has racist opinions would be booted out of any F A affiliated team.
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Post by Orac on Oct 20, 2023 10:46:00 GMT
Stop wriggling and read the words in the post , not in your head . The post offers one example not all examples . Also you need to get your story right . Taking the knee was supposed to be a gesture against racism ( according to you ) . Now you deny it . Define racism .Would a claim that that we need to reduce migrants be racist? Maybe a claim that white peoples owe black people nothing ? Claiming white privilege is reverse racism ? Why stop at racism? Maybe any kind of perceived bigotry ? "Taking The Knee" IS a gesture against prejudice and racism Not everyone agrees with that statement, so it isn't. That's the way gestures, especially political gestures / symbols, work. This is one good reason why bodies like the FA should avoid political gesturing
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Post by Bentley on Oct 20, 2023 10:57:07 GMT
Stop wriggling and read the words in the post , not in your head . The post offers one example not all examples . Also you need to get your story right . Taking the knee was supposed to be a gesture against racism ( according to you ) . Now you deny it . Define racism .Would a claim that that we need to reduce migrants be racist? Maybe a claim that white peoples owe black people nothing ? Claiming white privilege is reverse racism ? Why stop at racism? Maybe any kind of perceived bigotry ? Sorry, but your posts are becoming more and more delusional "Taking The Knee" IS a gesture against prejudice and racism, and I have never denied it. Racism or prejudice in action is having opinions that people of a different colour, ethnicity or race are inferior, and that such people should be treated differently, or that its ok to discriminate against such people, or that its ok to use offensive or abusive comments and language aimed at such people, refering to the fact that they are different. "Taking The Knee" or refusing to "Take The Knee" does not come into it, many people do not feel the need to make the gesture, but it does not mean they are racists. Political opinions WOULD fall into the racist bracket if you feel we should halt all immigration because you believe coloured people are inferior, but political opinions are NOT racist if you simply believe that too many people are coming into the country. A soccer player who believes immigration is too high has nothing to fear - a soccer player who has racist opinions would be booted out of any F A affiliated team. Stop projecting your delusions at me . YOU” We are not talking here about taking the knee, we are debating the issue of racism in football, and in society.” YOU”Taking The Knee" IS a gesture against prejudice and racism,” Lol. If taking the knee is a gesture against prejudice and racism ( when did it become about prejudice AND racism ? ). then by refusing to take the knee a player would be making a statement approving racism ( and general prejudice now apparently). Don’t pretend otherwise . Dont pretend that any statement that didn’t toe the leftie woke line or any overt dismissal of woke gestures would not be considered racist or bigoted .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2023 11:03:46 GMT
"Taking The Knee" IS a gesture against prejudice and racism Not everyone agrees with that statement, so it isn't. That's the way gestures, especially political gestures, work. This is one good reason why bodies like the FA should avoid political gesturing The BLM movement is exactly that .... "A Movement", it exists all over the world, in a few countries there are actually organisations called BLM, as in the United States for example, mot of the different organisations have no connection to each other. But in the most part, BLM is an unorganised movement with a slogan, a gesture, and a common thread which is that black people should not be singled out because they are black, and indisputable evidence says that it happens a lot in the United States, and to a lesser degree in this country. SOME people have decided that one particular group in the United States ( but not here ), which has very militant views, is representative of everyone who either "takes the knee" or supports the cause of BLM. In which case would mean that the England soccer team support defunding the police, which is just plain and utter nonsense. The England football team, are ONE team, the white team members, the Afro-Caribbean team members, and the British Asian team member(s), they stand together, and they have made it clear that, through a gesture, they will not tolerate racism. Its NOT political - its NOT a political gesture - and the team ARE NOT involving themselves in politics. The English F A have no problem with the gesture (which largely does not happen now ) because it is not classed as political or controversial, they see it for what it actually is, and what it is supposed to be seen as, which IS NOT a Marxist organisation, or an organisation with militant views, or which is opposed the the police.
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Post by Orac on Oct 20, 2023 11:06:56 GMT
None of this is of any relevance. The gesture's cultural / political meaning is not coordinated or governed by you. It is interpreted by society.
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Post by Bentley on Oct 20, 2023 11:08:00 GMT
Not everyone agrees with that statement, so it isn't. That's the way gestures, especially political gestures, work. This is one good reason why bodies like the FA should avoid political gesturing The BLM movement is exactly that .... "A Movement", it exists all over the world, in a few countries there are actually organisations called BLM, as in the United States for example, mot of the different organisations have no connection to each other. But in the most part, BLM is an unorganised movement with a slogan, a gesture, and a common thread which is that black people should not be singled out because they are black, and indisputable evidence says that it happens a lot in the United States, and to a lesser degree in this country. SOME people have decided that one particular group in the United States ( but not here ), which has very militant views, is representative of everyone who either "takes the knee" or supports the cause of BLM. In which case would mean that the England soccer team support defunding the police, which is just plain and utter nonsense. The England football team, are ONE team, the white team members, the Afro-Caribbean team members, and the British Asian team member(s), they stand together, and they have made it clear that, through a gesture, they will not tolerate racism. Its NOT political - its NOT a political gesture - and the team ARE NOT involving themselves in politics. The English F A have no problem with the gesture (which largely does not happen now ) because it is not classed as political or controversial, they see it for what it actually is, and what it is supposed to be seen as, which IS NOT a Marxist organisation, or an organisation with militant views, or which is opposed the the police. Here’s an idea . Let’s start a movement called ‘ let’s be kind to kittens ‘ and use the hitherto Nazi salute as a gesture . No one can dispute that we should all be kind to kittens .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2023 11:32:44 GMT
What is VERY sinister, is the fact that some people do not like famous people taking the knee ( soccer players, sports people, entertainers, politicians ).
The gesture of "Taking The Knee" was ALWAYS meant to be about opposing prejudice and racism, it was never about anything else, and was first used by American Football players.
A Nazi salute was a political gesture, it was intended as a political gesture.
If "no one can dispute that prejudice should not happen", then why exactly are you opposed to anyone making a gesture as a sign against prejudice.
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Post by Bentley on Oct 20, 2023 11:41:34 GMT
What is VERY sinister, is the fact that some people do not like famous people taking the knee ( soccer players, sports people, entertainers, politicians ). The gesture of "Taking The Knee" was ALWAYS meant to be about opposing prejudice and racism, it was never about anything else, and was first used by American Football players. A Nazi salute was a political gesture, it was intended as a political gesture. If "no one can dispute that prejudice should not happen", then why exactly are you opposed to anyone making a gesture as a sign against prejudice. Nope. It WAS a political gesture . Now it can be a gesture for kindness to kittens . Taking the knee was a gesture imported from the US about a problem in the US . It was essentially a gesture supporting BLM . Now the usual leftie suspects are gas lighting us believing that it wasn’t and not only that but it has nothing to do with the nasty BLM . Maybe we should have a gesture for ‘ all lives matter ‘ but that wouldn’t suit the leftie prejudice against white people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2023 12:02:52 GMT
What is VERY sinister, is the fact that some people do not like famous people taking the knee ( soccer players, sports people, entertainers, politicians ). The gesture of "Taking The Knee" was ALWAYS meant to be about opposing prejudice and racism, it was never about anything else, and was first used by American Football players. A Nazi salute was a political gesture, it was intended as a political gesture. If "no one can dispute that prejudice should not happen", then why exactly are you opposed to anyone making a gesture as a sign against prejudice. Nope. It WAS a political gesture . Now it can be a gesture for kindness to kittens . Taking the knee was a gesture imported from the US about a problem in the US . It was essentially a gesture supporting BLM . Now the usual leftie suspects are gas lighting us believing that it wasn’t and not only that but it has nothing to do with the nasty BLM . Maybe we should have a gesture for ‘ all lives matter ‘ but that wouldn’t suit the leftie prejudice against white people. Opposing racial prejudice is not political Yes - "taking the knee" was indeed imported from the United States, it was a problem involving race, racism and prejudice, particularly involving racial profiling, but it was not a political problem. "Maybe we should have a gesture for ‘ all lives matter ‘ but that wouldn’t suit the leftie prejudice against white people" In a white majority country like the UK and the United States, white people are not subjected to prejudice from the majority population because they are white. Black people are frequently, even still today, the target of prejudice in the United States, and to a much lesser degree in this country too. The problem with people like you is that you either ignore that racism has been a really big problem in this country, or you deny that it has ever been a problem. You are part and parcel of the same crowd who opposed the very first Race Relations Act in the 1960s, and who felt that Race Hate Laws curtailed your free speech, and that you should be allowed to call a black person the "N" word. People like you say that "Enoch was right", but ignore the fact that he appealed to black people to come to the mother country to work in our NHS, and then he turned to the Indian Sub Continent for shortages of doctors and GPs. Rivers Of Blood ( what a fucking joke ) 1968 - he said that within 15 year "the black man will have the whip hand", what happened in 1983 ? There are still out Out-Of-Date people with Out-Of-Date views who belong in a different century
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