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Post by Pacifico on Jan 29, 2024 17:46:14 GMT
The cost and situation with battery life from what ive heard means leasing is the only possible way to go with an electric car. I take on board what you are saying , im still not convinced though. Hybrids can I just point out are a totally different kettle of fish to full electric , especially self charging. Mrs P's PHEV (which both plug-in and self-charging) does 30 miles on one charge. She uses the vehicle almost daily for school runs, shopping, work, etc, but she frequently has the message on the dash to add new fuel because what's in the tank is getting old — a particular problem now more alcohol is being added to fuel. No real problem — we have adapted our car usage to suit.
There are also portable backup power supplies — like for a powerbank for phone or laptop, or a spare can of fuel — available in the US that can carried in the car, and they're coming here. Expensive at the moment, prices are dropping... PHEV's are the only currently workable solution - however they are still going to be banned in 2035 unless the Governments in Europe get a dose of common sense and give ICE cars a reprieve. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Jan 30, 2024 8:38:02 GMT
But PHEVs don't actually solve the original problem - to stop using fossil fuels. Most people use PHEVs using mainly fossil fuels - in fact many people never even use the electric cable to charge up their PHEV. Of course there are some, like zany, who use their PHEV primarily as an electric, but not many according to polls. So the main effect of PHEVs is to encumber a perfectly usable with a heavy battery, electric motor and electric paraphernalia, which makes them more expensive and less efficient. In other words it generates more CO2 than standard ICE vehicle.
The thing about full-electric is that it is, in theory, a very nice idea. Having everything working off electricity (heating, cooking, transport etc) is very convenient - and if the electricity is generated cleanly so much the better. Unfortunately there are some very BIG problems with implementing this. The first is that the National Grid needs to be drastically updated to carry much higher currents and also to allow it to accept reverse charging (like the local loop). We'll also need to build many more nuclear power stations - which will take many decades (Hinkley C is delayed to 2029 at the earliest and the cost has rocketed to £48 billion). The costs will be HUGE.
And the second major problem is the time it takes to charge and the number of charging points that are needed. It's unlikely that the charging time can ever get near what an ICE car can achieve, and it's unlikely that private finance can be persuaded to build the charging points because they're not profitable.
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Post by patman post on Jan 31, 2024 12:19:14 GMT
Mrs P's PHEV (which both plug-in and self-charging) does 30 miles on one charge. She uses the vehicle almost daily for school runs, shopping, work, etc, but she frequently has the message on the dash to add new fuel because what's in the tank is getting old — a particular problem now more alcohol is being added to fuel. No real problem — we have adapted our car usage to suit.
There are also portable backup power supplies — like for a powerbank for phone or laptop, or a spare can of fuel — available in the US that can carried in the car, and they're coming here. Expensive at the moment, prices are dropping...
I like the idea of a hybrid vehicle. My issue is with fully electric , as ive said above . Does the battery get much of a charge around the local area when the missus is doing 30 miles an hour? Not much chance of reaching 30mph locally even when the road is clear (20mph in central London boroughs and LTNs), but braking and coasting does put a bit back in the battery.
Incidentally, yesterday was the first time Mrs P added fuel since beginning of December...
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Post by patman post on Jan 31, 2024 12:27:52 GMT
Mrs P's PHEV (which both plug-in and self-charging) does 30 miles on one charge. She uses the vehicle almost daily for school runs, shopping, work, etc, but she frequently has the message on the dash to add new fuel because what's in the tank is getting old — a particular problem now more alcohol is being added to fuel. No real problem — we have adapted our car usage to suit.
There are also portable backup power supplies — like for a powerbank for phone or laptop, or a spare can of fuel — available in the US that can carried in the car, and they're coming here. Expensive at the moment, prices are dropping... PHEV's are the only currently workable solution - however they are still going to be banned in 2035 unless the Governments in Europe get a dose of common sense and give ICE cars a reprieve. 2035 is over a decade away. Battery technology is advancing — plus, unless I'd got a classic (like my Dad's MKII 3.8 Jag), I can't imagine keeping a car that long, and even then not for daily use... |
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Post by Orac on Jan 31, 2024 12:35:06 GMT
One might as well predict that, because IC technology is advancing, the 'issues' with IC engines will be sorted out by 2035.
The Walt Disney version of technological advancement - it will happen if you wish hard enough
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 31, 2024 18:11:01 GMT
PHEV's are the only currently workable solution - however they are still going to be banned in 2035 unless the Governments in Europe get a dose of common sense and give ICE cars a reprieve. 2035 is over a decade away. Battery technology is advancing — plus, unless I'd got a classic (like my Dad's MKII 3.8 Jag), I can't imagine keeping a car that long, and even then not for daily use... Tesla started mass producing cars in 2012 - they are using the same battery technology today as they used then with no change forecast on the horizon. |
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Post by patman post on Jan 31, 2024 18:14:06 GMT
One might as well predict that, because IC technology is advancing, the 'issues' with IC engines will be sorted out by 2035. The Walt Disney version of technological advancement - it will happen if you wish hard enough Don’t you think it’s doubtful that ICE will advance enough to run off hydrogen or put fossil fuels back in the ground…? |
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Post by patman post on Jan 31, 2024 18:25:27 GMT
2035 is over a decade away. Battery technology is advancing — plus, unless I'd got a classic (like my Dad's MKII 3.8 Jag), I can't imagine keeping a car that long, and even then not for daily use... Tesla started mass producing cars in 2012 - they are using the same battery technology today as they used then with no change forecast on the horizon. Ford started producing whole cars even earlier, and the basic powering principle of exploding a fossil fuel under pressure remains the same. There’s been the addition of lead and alcohol, among other substances, to the fuel. But the main drive is still toward electricity. Batteries and recharging will continue to be developed as demands and life-styles change to make use of what’s available — as happened with the car as people toyed with and enjoyed two-stroke and diesel power sources… |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 31, 2024 18:31:47 GMT
Tesla started mass producing cars in 2012 - they are using the same battery technology today as they used then with no change forecast on the horizon. Ford started producing whole cars even earlier, and the basic powering principle of exploding a fossil fuel under pressure remains the same. There’s been the addition of lead and alcohol, among other substances, to the fuel. But the main drive is still toward electricity. Batteries and recharging will continue to be developed as demands and life-styles change to make use of what’s available — as happened with the car as people toyed with and enjoyed two-stroke and diesel power sources… EV's were introduced in the 1890's - they fell out of favour due to better technologies coming along, they are only coming back into favour due to to Government diktat. The technology is still outclassed by the alternatives. |
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Post by patman post on Jan 31, 2024 18:41:52 GMT
One technology, battery technology, and that is no so far advanced over what was available 100 years ago, it powers Moon and other interplanetary rovers.
The uncomplicated technology of the motor and regeneration remains the same…
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Post by Orac on Jan 31, 2024 18:45:33 GMT
One might as well predict that, because IC technology is advancing, the 'issues' with IC engines will be sorted out by 2035. The Walt Disney version of technological advancement - it will happen if you wish hard enough Don’t you think it’s doubtful that ICE will advance enough to run off hydrogen or put fossil fuels back in the ground…? Sure. That assumption was even part of my point |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 31, 2024 18:50:43 GMT
One technology, battery technology, and that is no so far advanced over what was available 100 years ago, it powers Moon and other interplanetary rovers. The uncomplicated technology of the motor and regeneration remains the same… If it was superior to other technologies they wouldn't have to ban the other technologies - we didn't ban EV's to jump into ICE cars. |
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Post by Orac on Jan 31, 2024 19:10:23 GMT
Both technologies have been around a while and both are pretty 'matured' . It is unlikely that we will see the kind of order of magnitude level performance increases that would make rechargeable BEV's a functional equivalent of IC cars*
The other issue is that the battery itself isn't the only issue.
*in the vaguely foreseeable future.
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Post by patman post on Jan 31, 2024 19:48:59 GMT
One technology, battery technology, and that is no so far advanced over what was available 100 years ago, it powers Moon and other interplanetary rovers. The uncomplicated technology of the motor and regeneration remains the same… If it was superior to other technologies they wouldn't have to ban the other technologies - we didn't ban EV's to jump into ICE cars. What technologies have been banned? Polluting vehicles are being penalised, even steam power is accepted, but what technologies are currently banned…? |
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Post by Pacifico on Jan 31, 2024 22:26:53 GMT
If it was superior to other technologies they wouldn't have to ban the other technologies - we didn't ban EV's to jump into ICE cars. What technologies have been banned? Polluting vehicles are being penalised, even steam power is accepted, but what technologies are currently banned…? ICE vehicles are banned from 2035 and the EV Mandate introduced this year dictates the amount of EV's that must be sold.. Would so many regulations be needed for a superior technology? |
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