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Post by jonksy on Dec 14, 2023 20:36:09 GMT
ICE cars DO NOT HAVE A RECORD of bursting into flames unlike electric lemons. Yes they do, far more. Total bollocks. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 14, 2023 20:40:31 GMT
I know this thread has a lot of shit about EVs, but I have a rare piece of light I learnt today. It is to do with British Industry. It turns out that for motoring, the power to weight ratio is a very important factor in the design of a car. Well did you know the electric motor with the highest power to weight ratio in the world is currently produced by a British company? They beat the whole world in a contemporary technology. So it goes to show Blighty can do it if Blighty pulls her finger out. If this is true BVL the chinese will soon steal the recipe as they always do. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 14, 2023 20:59:58 GMT
Are they? So where are these mythical chargers then? Sorry, my mistake. I thought you meant buying an EV. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 14, 2023 21:00:34 GMT
I think the stats were published in this thread. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 14, 2023 21:02:18 GMT
I think the stats were published in this thread. The stats stand up for themselves. We never had carparks burnt to to the ground prior the introduction of EV lemons. |
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Post by jonksy on Dec 14, 2023 21:05:08 GMT
What drains an electric car battery most? From air-con to smartphone charging - how much range is wiped-out when using these nine common features.
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 15, 2023 8:24:05 GMT
I think the stats were published in this thread. I didn't see any. So give me the comparison figures for how many fires occur in cars (of a specific age) per mile for BEVs and ICE cars. And also the cost of the damage caused by the fires. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 15, 2023 8:28:43 GMT
I know this thread has a lot of shit about EVs, but I have a rare piece of light I learnt today. It is to do with British Industry. It turns out that for motoring, the power to weight ratio is a very important factor in the design of a car. Well did you know the electric motor with the highest power to weight ratio in the world is currently produced by a British company? They beat the whole world in a contemporary technology. So it goes to show Blighty can do it if Blighty pulls her finger out. The problem isn't EVs BvL - it's BEVs. Cars powered by electric motors are without doubt the future - but not when powered by Li-ion batteries, or any battery yet invented. These are a dangerous dead end and anybody with a full complement of brain cells has realised this years ago. |
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Post by Baron von Lotsov on Dec 15, 2023 13:31:22 GMT
I know this thread has a lot of shit about EVs, but I have a rare piece of light I learnt today. It is to do with British Industry. It turns out that for motoring, the power to weight ratio is a very important factor in the design of a car. Well did you know the electric motor with the highest power to weight ratio in the world is currently produced by a British company? They beat the whole world in a contemporary technology. So it goes to show Blighty can do it if Blighty pulls her finger out. If this is true BVL the chinese will soon steal the recipe as they always do. It is high time we got on with the Chinese. Rather than fight and argue, the firm could do a deal where their technology is incorporated in mass market cars and they can make a ton of cash on licencing it.
Remember the guy who invented the blue LED? He got his tech ripped off, so he went to court and ended up a billionaire. The corporation who ripped him off ended up serving him as they had marketed his product worldwide. By the way, China does pay its licence fees. You get the odd tale of rip-off still, but what you don't realise is the same shit goes on in the UK all the time. It's just the bastard press have it in for China.
I mean Lotus have formed a partnership with a Chinese firm and right now everyone is doing well out of it and rather than Lotus shutting down it is expanding and getting better.
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Post by zanygame on Dec 15, 2023 16:42:35 GMT
I think the stats were published in this thread. I didn't see any. So give me the comparison figures for how many fires occur in cars (of a specific age) per mile for BEVs and ICE cars. And also the cost of the damage caused by the fires. No. People should look them up themselves before you make spurious claims. What is it with you deniers that you think its everyone else's job to prove you wrong. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 16, 2023 9:15:12 GMT
I didn't see any. So give me the comparison figures for how many fires occur in cars (of a specific age) per mile for BEVs and ICE cars. And also the cost of the damage caused by the fires. No. People should look them up themselves before you make spurious claims. What is it with you deniers that you think its everyone else's job to prove you wrong. There aren't any figures which make comparisons between fires in ICE cars and BEVs on the terms that I quoted. Plainly you can make comparisons between vast numbers of ICE cars (of all ages and all mileages) with BEV cars (that are mainly new and do very low mileages) but I haven't even seen that done properly because they never include mileage in their comparisons and they never talk about the costs of the damage any fires cause. In the case of BEVs we know that most fires seem to be catastrophic and completely burn out the car and anything within 15 feet of the car - including buildings. Everything is destroyed. And using the word "denier" just makes gives away the fact that you're not interested in serious debate. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 16, 2023 12:30:49 GMT
No. People should look them up themselves before you make spurious claims. What is it with you deniers that you think its everyone else's job to prove you wrong. There aren't any figures which make comparisons between fires in ICE cars and BEVs on the terms that I quoted. Plainly you can make comparisons between vast numbers of ICE cars (of all ages and all mileages) with BEV cars (that are mainly new and do very low mileages) but I haven't even seen that done properly because they never include mileage in their comparisons and they never talk about the costs of the damage any fires cause. In the case of BEVs we know that most fires seem to be catastrophic and completely burn out the car and anything within 15 feet of the car - including buildings. Everything is destroyed. And using the word "denier" just makes gives away the fact that you're not interested in serious debate. So because there aren't figures deniers feel entitled to claim there are far more fires in EV's, and I have to prove them wrong. Sounds about right for denier world. You see I knew you wouldn't look it up or you'd be saying new car fires are far more common in ICE vehicles, but burn hotter in EV's. That there are very few cases indeed where the super fire in an EV has caused major damage to its surroundings. Serious debate? debate about what? Something made up. Whatiffery. |
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 17, 2023 8:33:17 GMT
There aren't any figures which make comparisons between fires in ICE cars and BEVs on the terms that I quoted. Plainly you can make comparisons between vast numbers of ICE cars (of all ages and all mileages) with BEV cars (that are mainly new and do very low mileages) but I haven't even seen that done properly because they never include mileage in their comparisons and they never talk about the costs of the damage any fires cause. In the case of BEVs we know that most fires seem to be catastrophic and completely burn out the car and anything within 15 feet of the car - including buildings. Everything is destroyed. And using the word "denier" just makes gives away the fact that you're not interested in serious debate. Sounds about right for denier world. You see I knew you wouldn't look it up or you'd be saying new car fires are far more common in ICE vehicles, but burn hotter in EV's. That there are very few cases indeed where the super fire in an EV has caused major damage to its surroundings. Serious debate? debate about what? Something made up. Whatiffery. I don't think I've ever said there are far more fires in BEVs. I think that's highly doubtful considering how few there are on British roads, the fact that they do very low mileages and that they're all pretty new. The problem with BEVs is that when they catch fire they can't be put out and they do vast amounts of damage. In fact I find it very strange that the govt have made such dangerous batteries legal on British roads. They're just an accident waiting to happen. We've already had several and some underwriters no longer insure them. |
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Post by zanygame on Dec 17, 2023 8:46:40 GMT
So because there aren't figures deniers feel entitled to claim there are far more fires in EV's, and I have to prove them wrong. Sounds about right for denier world. You see I knew you wouldn't look it up or you'd be saying new car fires are far more common in ICE vehicles, but burn hotter in EV's. That there are very few cases indeed where the super fire in an EV has caused major damage to its surroundings. Serious debate? debate about what? Something made up. Whatiffery. I don't think I've ever said there are far more fires in BEVs. I think that's highly doubtful considering how few there are on British roads, the fact that they do very low mileages and that they're all pretty new. The problem with BEVs is that when they catch fire they can't be put out and they do vast amounts of damage. In fact I find it very strange that the govt have made such dangerous batteries legal on British roads. They're just an accident waiting to happen. We've already had several and some underwriters no longer insure them. I'm talking about like for like and percentage wise, not raw numbers. Jonsky made the claim, you didn't challenge him, but you did me. and that says it all lying by omission is still lying. There are far more possible causes for a fire in an ICE vehicle pumping flammable fluids around its engine, squirting them at high pressure in an extremely hot environment. www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/20/do-electric-cars-pose-a-greater-fire-risk-than-petrol-or-diesel-vehicles#:~:text=%E2%80%9CAll%20the%20data%20shows%20that,just%20aren't%20reported.%E2%80%9D “ All the data shows that EVs are just much, much less likely to set on fire than their petrol equivalent,” said Colin Walker, the head of transport at the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit thinktank. “The many, many fires that you have for petrol or diesel cars just aren’t reported.” Fires can start in several ways. Car batteries store energy by moving lithium ions inside a battery cell but if cells are penetrated or if impurities from manufacturing errors cause short-circuits, then unwanted chemical reactions can start “thermal runaway”, where cells heat up rapidly, releasing toxic and flammable gas. In petrol cars, fires can start via electrical faults causing sparks or if the engine overheats because of a fault in the cooling systems, potentially igniting flammable fuel. In Norway, which has the world’s highest proportion of electric car sales, there are between four and five times more fires in petrol and diesel cars, according to the directorate for social security and emergency preparedness. The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency this year found that there were 3.8 fires per 100,000 electric or hybrid cars in 2022, compared with 68 fires per 100,000 cars when taking all fuel types into account. However, the latter figures include arson, making comparisons tricky. Australia’s Department of Defence funded EV FireSafe to look into the question. It found there was a 0.0012% chance of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire, compared with a 0.1% chance for internal combustion engine cars. (The Home Office said it was unable to provide data for the UK.) |
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Post by steppenwolf on Dec 18, 2023 7:35:37 GMT
I don't think I've ever said there are far more fires in BEVs. I think that's highly doubtful considering how few there are on British roads, the fact that they do very low mileages and that they're all pretty new. The problem with BEVs is that when they catch fire they can't be put out and they do vast amounts of damage. In fact I find it very strange that the govt have made such dangerous batteries legal on British roads. They're just an accident waiting to happen. We've already had several and some underwriters no longer insure them. I'm talking about like for like and percentage wise, not raw numbers. Jonsky made the claim, you didn't challenge him, but you did me. and that says it all lying by omission is still lying. There are far more possible causes for a fire in an ICE vehicle pumping flammable fluids around its engine, squirting them at high pressure in an extremely hot environment. www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/20/do-electric-cars-pose-a-greater-fire-risk-than-petrol-or-diesel-vehicles#:~:text=%E2%80%9CAll%20the%20data%20shows%20that,just%20aren't%20reported.%E2%80%9D “ All the data shows that EVs are just much, much less likely to set on fire than their petrol equivalent,” said Colin Walker, the head of transport at the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit thinktank. “The many, many fires that you have for petrol or diesel cars just aren’t reported.” Fires can start in several ways. Car batteries store energy by moving lithium ions inside a battery cell but if cells are penetrated or if impurities from manufacturing errors cause short-circuits, then unwanted chemical reactions can start “thermal runaway”, where cells heat up rapidly, releasing toxic and flammable gas. In petrol cars, fires can start via electrical faults causing sparks or if the engine overheats because of a fault in the cooling systems, potentially igniting flammable fuel. In Norway, which has the world’s highest proportion of electric car sales, there are between four and five times more fires in petrol and diesel cars, according to the directorate for social security and emergency preparedness. The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency this year found that there were 3.8 fires per 100,000 electric or hybrid cars in 2022, compared with 68 fires per 100,000 cars when taking all fuel types into account. However, the latter figures include arson, making comparisons tricky. Australia’s Department of Defence funded EV FireSafe to look into the question. It found there was a 0.0012% chance of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire, compared with a 0.1% chance for internal combustion engine cars. (The Home Office said it was unable to provide data for the UK.)The last 2 statistics are perfect examples of meaningless statistics. As I said you need to compare like with like and also take into account the consequences. So you can't compare a virtually new BEV which does very low miles with an old ICE vehicle that does high mileage. In Norway they have a very high number of electric vehicles because the subsidies and benefits offered by the state (free parking for example) mean that they are very popular - but mainly for town use and shopping. Long journeys are done in big conventional engined 4X4s. And you need to take into account the cost of the damage done by a fire. If a BEV car battery catches fire the consequences are very serious. We've already seen the consequences of BEV fires - and they're so serious that some underwriters are no longer insuring them. That says it all. And as these BEVs get older the battery problems will tend to increase as they're shaken around on the road and charged more often. |
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