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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2024 8:54:45 GMT
Nice round number, what's expected to cost £50bn a year? Stupidity... Bugger you charge a lot. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 11, 2024 9:04:27 GMT
I don't believe population growth is an existential problem for us in the west, except to the extent that our political class allows the surplus populations of the rest of the world to move here. The peoples of European descent, who at the moment comprise just 15% of the global population, hold collective title to 40% of the global land area including all the temperate climatic zones which are agriculturally the most productive. This is why so many of the rest of the world aspire to move here. But you're right. The one topic which is absolutely taboo in western political circles is population growth. In the UK. for example there has not been a Royal Commission on Population since 1949. Mainstream politicians simply won't touch it. There is massive population growth in areas that, according to your simplified (implied?) thesis, effectively don't have any access to a means to survive. That's a bit odd. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 11, 2024 9:22:31 GMT
It's because of what demographers (and Malthus) call Weak Restraints on Population Growth, including cheap energy, expanded food supply (Green Revolution) and access to western medicine. These will disappear as the expanding population and increasing aspirations for a 'western' lifestyle rapidly outpace finite and dwindling resources. There are only three solutions: the West takes on the role of resource provider permanently, or there are massive population transfers south to north or nature is allowed to take its course.  See: Stanton W., 2004, The Rapid Growth of Human Populations 1750-2000: Histories, Consequences, Issues, Nation by Nation |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2024 9:33:28 GMT
It's because of what demographers (and Malthus) call Weak Restraints on Population Growth, including cheap energy, expanded food supply (Green Revolution) and access to western medicine. These will disappear as the expanding population and increasing aspirations for a 'western' lifestyle rapidly outpace finite and dwindling resources. There are only three solutions: the West takes on the role of resource provider permanently, or there are massive population transfers south to north or nature is allowed to take its course. See: Stanton W., 2004, The Rapid Growth of Human Populations 1750-2000: Histories, Consequences, Issues, Nation by Nation Do you have an idea what population the world could manage if we did it properly. Clean energy, modern farming methods, good education etc. My hope is that we create conditions where the population levels itself or even reduces as seen in most wealthy economies. |
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Post by Orac on Mar 11, 2024 9:38:17 GMT
It's because of what demographers (and Malthus) call Weak Restraints on Population Growth, including cheap energy, expanded food supply (Green Revolution) and access to western medicine. These will disappear as the expanding population and increasing aspirations for a 'western' lifestyle rapidly outpace finite and dwindling resources. There are only three solutions: the West takes on the role of resource provider permanently, or there are massive population transfers south to north or nature is allowed to take its course. I can't see that moving population would do anything but provide yet more of what you term 'Weak Restraints on Population Growth'. The notion that human life is only really possible in northern areas is pretty damn silly. The problems of survival there have had a lot of historic attention and focus and many of them have been solved, but, if we exclude desert regions (north and south), there is still plenty of land capable of supporting populations (with the right treatment and techniques) in both areas. In some tropical regions you don't even particularly need to engage in aggressive agriculture because food is available throughout the year. |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2024 9:41:05 GMT
It's because of what demographers (and Malthus) call Weak Restraints on Population Growth, including cheap energy, expanded food supply (Green Revolution) and access to western medicine. These will disappear as the expanding population and increasing aspirations for a 'western' lifestyle rapidly outpace finite and dwindling resources. There are only three solutions: the West takes on the role of resource provider permanently, or there are massive population transfers south to north or nature is allowed to take its course. I can't see that moving population would do anything but provide yet more of what you term 'Weak Restraints on Population Growth'. The notion that human life is only really possible in northern areas is pretty damn silly. The problems of survival there have had a lot of historic attention and focus and many of them have been solved, but, if we exclude desert regions (north and south), there is still plenty of land capable of supporting populations (with the right treatment and techniques) in both areas. In some tropical regions you don't even particularly need to engage in aggressive agriculture because food is available throughout the year. I agree. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 11, 2024 9:43:06 GMT
That's the letting nature run its course option.
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2024 9:46:41 GMT
That's the letting nature run its course option. Kind of, but we could help them reach our position without bringing them here. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Mar 11, 2024 9:48:41 GMT
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Post by jonksy on Mar 11, 2024 10:28:41 GMT
Nah....I pay for my own stupididty rather than burden the taxpayers...I cannot say the same for those idiots from the nut zero club.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2024 11:13:17 GMT
The reality we inhabit is one in which, for political purposes, the general population is encouraged to believe there is an entitlement to essentially unlimited material consumption and personal mobility on the North American model based on access to a corncupia of resources which are essentially infinite in scale. Should national resources not quite measure up then the market will provide for any shortfall, as it always has. Heaven forbid that anyone should be disappointed if/when the market - and by extension - the politicians are unable to deliver on their promise. The general population of course now includes not only the slowly declining numbers of 'natives' - around fifty million or so as of now - but the many millions of immigrants who have come to hear about 'the reality' and decided to join us to get a slice of it for themselves. We're told there'll be twenty million or so of them in just a couple of years, every one of whom will be hankering for same North American-style levels of consumption that politicians and big business are dangling before the natives. Just as resources are thought to be infinite in scale so are the numbers who will be arriving to take advantage of them. That's the reality. Dan, the reality is population growth will kill humanity. Every day 80 million people people are added to the global population and they all need food, water, power, resources. Rare earth mineral mining is in it's infancy but to satisfy demand for electric car batteries large areas of Africa and South America have already been devastated and mining companies are about to start exploiting deposits in pristine rainforests in the Philippines. Where are the activists, where are the oh so virtuous demonstrators who apparently care about mother earth? Out of sight out of mind I guess. Attenborough quite rightly said the most dangerous threat to humankind is population growth. And everyone knows that, yet there isn't a single politician or organisation in the world who will openly suggest population controls. It's about 200,000 per day, but you still have a point. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Mar 11, 2024 11:57:05 GMT
Dan, the reality is population growth will kill humanity. Every day 80 million people people are added to the global population and they all need food, water, power, resources. Rare earth mineral mining is in it's infancy but to satisfy demand for electric car batteries large areas of Africa and South America have already been devastated and mining companies are about to start exploiting deposits in pristine rainforests in the Philippines. Where are the activists, where are the oh so virtuous demonstrators who apparently care about mother earth? Out of sight out of mind I guess. Attenborough quite rightly said the most dangerous threat to humankind is population growth. And everyone knows that, yet there isn't a single politician or organisation in the world who will openly suggest population controls. It's about 200,000 per day, but you still have a point. Quite, I meant every year not every day. I will march myself to the naughty step. |
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Post by patman post on Mar 11, 2024 12:09:14 GMT
It's about 200,000 per day, but you still have a point. Quite, I meant every year not every day. I will march myself to the naughty step. In case you’ve forgotten your squaddie training, that’s Left-Right, Left-Right, Left-Right, etc, until you reach your destination… |
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Post by zanygame on Mar 11, 2024 12:12:59 GMT
Nah....I pay for my own stupididty rather than burden the taxpayers...I cannot say the same for those idiots from the nut zero club.. Ooh thanks, I must remember to renew my membership.  |
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Post by Pacifico on Mar 11, 2024 12:18:39 GMT
"In recent years, investors have been drawn to the wind industry by falling project costs and the prospect of new wind farms generating an abundance of cheap, clean energy."
Investors want high energy costs to deliver large profits - what is currently driving investment is taxpayer subsidies and grants.
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