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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 10:02:51 GMT
I know I am opening a can of worms here and will get no sensible comments but I am going to give it a go. I hear the left is this and the left is that but never any sensible reasons for disliking them. Typical. The left spends other peoples money - and so do all political parties. The left are champagne socialists - the left has no problem with some amongst them being well off. The left are woke - we are all woke to one degree or another, so what? The left want to defund the police - they don't. The left are in the pockets of the unions - the unions are made up of working people. The left support BLM - they do they believe all lives matter. The left call out things like food bank use - they do but why doesn't everyone? Just a few. When you reduce politics to left vs right, you're putting people into one of two pots and honestly, while this is appropriate for US politics who've built their entire political system upon it, it's not really a true reflection of politics across almost any other nation. Even in the US, it's questionable because a not so small number of Americans are aligned to middle values and don't agree with the far left/right of their party. People on the 'Left' often have contrasting and different views with some of their more vocal causes & the same is true for the right. As an example, not everyone on the right is a climate denier and not everyone on the left is a huge advocate for BLM. Unfortunately, group think and group mentality have a huge roll to play in this, but the tldr is (in my opinion), reducing politics to a binary value is never going to work because politics is a very complicated and nuanced topic. A better question therefore might have been, "Why do people dislike BLM", or Why do people dislike "Woke" or "Champagne socialists" etc. I totally agree but I read a lot of people criticising the left for all the ills of the country and indeed the world and am interested as to why it always the left that are 'in the wrong', don't get me wrong the left are wrong but no more wrong than other sections. What I have discovered is that what people blame the left for is quite easily ported over to the right which, as you say, makes a nonsense of the binary thinking. For example, I have asked a number of people if they consider that 'black lives matter', which is a big 'itching' point of a lot on the right and my only reply seems to be 'do you think white lives matter', to which I respond in the positive but get no reply to my question and I'm accused of being 'prejudiced against white people'.
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Post by Tinculin on Oct 12, 2023 10:56:13 GMT
If taken literally, Do Black Lives do matter? Of course, they do and this wouldn't normally be a problem for anyone to state.
The reason this introduces discontent is because the motives of those using it are not focused on 'lives matter', they are focused on creating racial tension and using this as a 'gotcha' moment as a method to instead create racial disharmony.
What is fake, is the BLM movement & organization itself, which is a multi-million dollar organization that (much like similar organizations), has no place in a non-racist society. Stirring up racial tensions and division is their MO, which is what you see all the time. If BLM were actually interested in saving black lives, they'd spend a good portion of their time calling out all the black-on-black gang crime and murders which proportionally make up a far higher majority of black deaths and doing a lot more work to help reduce the situations which are responsible for the largest numbers of Black deaths.
Instead of dealing with these actual Black issues, it is instead focused on stirring up racial tension and weakening policing which in turn facilitates and enables black-on-black crime, putting more black lives at risk.
Which is why I don't like BLM - they are full of shit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 11:31:47 GMT
If taken literally, Do Black Lives do matter? Of course, they do and this wouldn't normally be a problem for anyone to state. The reason this introduces discontent is because the motives of those using it are not focused on 'lives matter', they are focused on creating racial tension and using this as a 'gotcha' moment as a method to instead create racial disharmony. What is fake, is the BLM movement & organization itself, which is a multi-million dollar organization that (much like similar organizations), has no place in a non-racist society. Stirring up racial tensions and division is their MO, which is what you see all the time. If BLM were actually interested in saving black lives, they'd spend a good portion of their time calling out all the black-on-black gang crime and murders which proportionally make up a far higher majority of black deaths and doing a lot more work to help reduce the situations which are responsible for the largest numbers of Black deaths. Instead of dealing with these actual Black issues, it is instead focused on stirring up racial tension and weakening policing which in turn facilitates and enables black-on-black crime, putting more black lives at risk. Which is why I don't like BLM - they are full of shit. It seems a lot of people on this board disagree with you and do not believe that black lives matter, well not as much as white lives at least. BLM was not part of the question on do black lives matter and I have always stated that there is a lot wrong with BLM but on this I agree. I was looking for genuine reasons why people hate the left and up to now I have had no serious discussion in this vein, just insults and accusations. It appears very, very few of those that have replied really have a clue as to why they so vociferously hate the left, other that what they read in biased media reports. I do agree you cannot reduce politics to left v right but unfortunately 'if it's bad' it's the left seems to be the mantra of many, sad really.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 11:35:57 GMT
If taken literally, Do Black Lives do matter? Of course, they do and this wouldn't normally be a problem for anyone to state. The reason this introduces discontent is because the motives of those using it are not focused on 'lives matter', they are focused on creating racial tension and using this as a 'gotcha' moment as a method to instead create racial disharmony. What is fake, is the BLM movement & organization itself, which is a multi-million dollar organization that (much like similar organizations), has no place in a non-racist society. Stirring up racial tensions and division is their MO, which is what you see all the time. If BLM were actually interested in saving black lives, they'd spend a good portion of their time calling out all the black-on-black gang crime and murders which proportionally make up a far higher majority of black deaths and doing a lot more work to help reduce the situations which are responsible for the largest numbers of Black deaths. Instead of dealing with these actual Black issues, it is instead focused on stirring up racial tension and weakening policing which in turn facilitates and enables black-on-black crime, putting more black lives at risk. Which is why I don't like BLM - they are full of shit. The title in itself is propaganda. It's a common theme from these far-left movements, and this particular one implies something that is an outright lie. As in, I have never encountered anything that suggested otherwise.
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Post by Bentley on Oct 12, 2023 11:57:34 GMT
If taken literally, Do Black Lives do matter? Of course, they do and this wouldn't normally be a problem for anyone to state. The reason this introduces discontent is because the motives of those using it are not focused on 'lives matter', they are focused on creating racial tension and using this as a 'gotcha' moment as a method to instead create racial disharmony. What is fake, is the BLM movement & organization itself, which is a multi-million dollar organization that (much like similar organizations), has no place in a non-racist society. Stirring up racial tensions and division is their MO, which is what you see all the time. If BLM were actually interested in saving black lives, they'd spend a good portion of their time calling out all the black-on-black gang crime and murders which proportionally make up a far higher majority of black deaths and doing a lot more work to help reduce the situations which are responsible for the largest numbers of Black deaths. Instead of dealing with these actual Black issues, it is instead focused on stirring up racial tension and weakening policing which in turn facilitates and enables black-on-black crime, putting more black lives at risk. Which is why I don't like BLM - they are full of shit. It seems a lot of people on this board disagree with you and do not believe that black lives matter, well not as much as white lives at least. BLM was not part of the question on do black lives matter and I have always stated that there is a lot wrong with BLM but on this I agree. I was looking for genuine reasons why people hate the left and up to now I have had no serious discussion in this vein, just insults and accusations. It appears very, very few of those that have replied really have a clue as to why they so vociferously hate the left, other that what they read in biased media reports. I do agree you cannot reduce politics to left v right but unfortunately 'if it's bad' it's the left seems to be the mantra of many, sad really. There is no evidence that anyone on this board believes black lives do not matter. That’s just a contrived insinuation that was constructed in your head . Which is rich for someone accusing others of insults . You asked for genuine reasons m I gave my genuine opinions . Straight away a leftie turned up as demanded unequivocal evidence of an opinion. So what’s wrong with the left ? They are the new religious zealots .
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Post by ratcliff on Oct 12, 2023 12:46:04 GMT
I didn't post that view- CToo posted that stupidity not me ( but is trying unsuccessfully to backtrack and claim that they didn't ) He/She/It posted that a legal qualification is necessary to be able to look after yourself It's the standard b***ocks from that poster No I didn't, what I posted was that people who are not legally trained need people who are legally trained to look after them in legal situations. When you cannot prove otherwise, just remember that forum readers can see you as an uneducated moron who appears to think she is actually very clever. Mwahhh, - a lefty misgendered me - I need to complain , will need compensation for anxiety/hurt/intimidation and a personal apology (and anything else I've forgotten) Yet again you try to deny what you actually posted ( being kind maybe its short term memory loss ?) To remind you and anyone else who is stupid enough to believe your bulls**t it is an obvious fact that not all working people have the ability to ensure they are treated fairly and to quote the important bit that you missed, they do not have the legal qualifications to look after themselves.Kindly highlight exactly where , in this quote you now claim that you stated people who are not legally trained need people who are legally trained to look after them in legal situations.We'll still be waiting for an answer in 5 years because the answer is no-where - why not just admit that you (in lefty phraseology) ''mis-wrote?
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Post by dodgydave on Oct 12, 2023 13:05:01 GMT
I was looking for genuine reasons why people hate the left and up to now I have had no serious discussion in this vein, just insults and accusations. It appears very, very few of those that have replied really have a clue as to why they so vociferously hate the left, other that what they read in biased media reports. I do agree you cannot reduce politics to left v right but unfortunately 'if it's bad' it's the left seems to be the mantra of many, sad really. Most people would be deeply opposed to Communists and Democratic Socialists. The majority of people (including myself) would probably fit into a Social Democrat definition, which is on the left (just about). When people talk of "the left", I think what they are really opposing is "lefties". People who take a position so they can be "seen to be on the morally correct side".... ie virtue signaling and preachy.
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Post by sandypine on Oct 12, 2023 14:08:41 GMT
When you reduce politics to left vs right, you're putting people into one of two pots and honestly, while this is appropriate for US politics who've built their entire political system upon it, it's not really a true reflection of politics across almost any other nation. Even in the US, it's questionable because a not so small number of Americans are aligned to middle values and don't agree with the far left/right of their party. People on the 'Left' often have contrasting and different views with some of their more vocal causes & the same is true for the right. As an example, not everyone on the right is a climate denier and not everyone on the left is a huge advocate for BLM. Unfortunately, group think and group mentality have a huge roll to play in this, but the tldr is (in my opinion), reducing politics to a binary value is never going to work because politics is a very complicated and nuanced topic. A better question therefore might have been, "Why do people dislike BLM", or Why do people dislike "Woke" or "Champagne socialists" etc. I totally agree but I read a lot of people criticising the left for all the ills of the country and indeed the world and am interested as to why it always the left that are 'in the wrong', don't get me wrong the left are wrong but no more wrong than other sections. What I have discovered is that what people blame the left for is quite easily ported over to the right which, as you say, makes a nonsense of the binary thinking. For example, I have asked a number of people if they consider that 'black lives matter', which is a big 'itching' point of a lot on the right and my only reply seems to be 'do you think white lives matter', to which I respond in the positive but get no reply to my question and I'm accused of being 'prejudiced against white people'. The genuine reasons you would regard as an insult which makes it difficult to engage. There is little doubt, certainly in my view, that the left (as a generalisation) are hypocritical on many points. They hate racism but are racist, they demand equality but forego it for others, they demand respect for ideologies but express open hatred if they disagree with any, they applaud human rights but are very keen to end them for many.
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 12, 2023 14:20:34 GMT
If taken literally, Do Black Lives do matter? Of course, they do and this wouldn't normally be a problem for anyone to state. The reason this introduces discontent is because the motives of those using it are not focused on 'lives matter', they are focused on creating racial tension and using this as a 'gotcha' moment as a method to instead create racial disharmony. What is fake, is the BLM movement & organization itself, which is a multi-million dollar organization that (much like similar organizations), has no place in a non-racist society. Stirring up racial tensions and division is their MO, which is what you see all the time. If BLM were actually interested in saving black lives, they'd spend a good portion of their time calling out all the black-on-black gang crime and murders which proportionally make up a far higher majority of black deaths and doing a lot more work to help reduce the situations which are responsible for the largest numbers of Black deaths. Instead of dealing with these actual Black issues, it is instead focused on stirring up racial tension and weakening policing which in turn facilitates and enables black-on-black crime, putting more black lives at risk. Which is why I don't like BLM - they are full of shit. Exactly, and the prime motive behind BLM is 'money', they saw the $$$$ signs, then of course the BLM UK they also saw the ££££ signs, it doesn't generate money if there is no racism, that's why they make sure with the help of the lefties that it's constantly stoked
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 17:10:36 GMT
I was looking for genuine reasons why people hate the left and up to now I have had no serious discussion in this vein, just insults and accusations. It appears very, very few of those that have replied really have a clue as to why they so vociferously hate the left, other that what they read in biased media reports. I do agree you cannot reduce politics to left v right but unfortunately 'if it's bad' it's the left seems to be the mantra of many, sad really. Most people would be deeply opposed to Communists and Democratic Socialists. The majority of people (including myself) would probably fit into a Social Democrat definition, which is on the left (just about). When people talk of "the left", I think what they are really opposing is "lefties". People who take a position so they can be "seen to be on the morally correct side".... ie virtue signaling and preachy. So it's not the policies then, just the people? So if someone supports 'BLM' they are automatically lefties.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2023 17:16:01 GMT
I totally agree but I read a lot of people criticising the left for all the ills of the country and indeed the world and am interested as to why it always the left that are 'in the wrong', don't get me wrong the left are wrong but no more wrong than other sections. What I have discovered is that what people blame the left for is quite easily ported over to the right which, as you say, makes a nonsense of the binary thinking. For example, I have asked a number of people if they consider that 'black lives matter', which is a big 'itching' point of a lot on the right and my only reply seems to be 'do you think white lives matter', to which I respond in the positive but get no reply to my question and I'm accused of being 'prejudiced against white people'. The genuine reasons you would regard as an insult which makes it difficult to engage. There is little doubt, certainly in my view, that the left (as a generalisation) are hypocritical on many points. They hate racism but are racist, they demand equality but forego it for others, they demand respect for ideologies but express open hatred if they disagree with any, they applaud human rights but are very keen to end them for many. Most people are hypocritical on many points that is not a left trait it is a human trait. They hate racism but are racist is an odd remark, here I assume you are talking about 'white' privilege or more accurately the denial that it exists, please correct me if I am wrong but you give no example. It just sounds like you are reading off a list with no context or example, so I have to say that could apply to all wings of politics.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 12, 2023 17:42:22 GMT
If taken literally, Do Black Lives do matter? Of course, they do and this wouldn't normally be a problem for anyone to state. The reason this introduces discontent is because the motives of those using it are not focused on 'lives matter', they are focused on creating racial tension and using this as a 'gotcha' moment as a method to instead create racial disharmony. What is fake, is the BLM movement & organization itself, which is a multi-million dollar organization that (much like similar organizations), has no place in a non-racist society. Stirring up racial tensions and division is their MO, which is what you see all the time. If BLM were actually interested in saving black lives, they'd spend a good portion of their time calling out all the black-on-black gang crime and murders which proportionally make up a far higher majority of black deaths and doing a lot more work to help reduce the situations which are responsible for the largest numbers of Black deaths. Instead of dealing with these actual Black issues, it is instead focused on stirring up racial tension and weakening policing which in turn facilitates and enables black-on-black crime, putting more black lives at risk. Which is why I don't like BLM - they are full of shit. They're worse than that - they're exploiting black lives for personal and political gain.
"Black lives matter" - but not to BLM they don't.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 12, 2023 17:43:33 GMT
And that's a large part of "What's wrong with the left?" - the cynical exploitation of those that they purport to protect.
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Post by sandypine on Oct 12, 2023 18:03:19 GMT
The genuine reasons you would regard as an insult which makes it difficult to engage. There is little doubt, certainly in my view, that the left (as a generalisation) are hypocritical on many points. They hate racism but are racist, they demand equality but forego it for others, they demand respect for ideologies but express open hatred if they disagree with any, they applaud human rights but are very keen to end them for many. Most people are hypocritical on many points that is not a left trait it is a human trait. They hate racism but are racist is an odd remark, here I assume you are talking about 'white' privilege or more accurately the denial that it exists, please correct me if I am wrong but you give no example. It just sounds like you are reading off a list with no context or example, so I have to say that could apply to all wings of politics. Many people are hypocritical, it is the left that make it an art form. I am more than willing to give examples but if you could indulge me for a moment could you define racism for me please so I know exactly what example to reference. As regards hating ideologies but demanding respect for belief we have a very broad left view that Islamophobia is a hate crime which is very much taken to be anyone who dislikes or criticises Islam strongly and Islam is only a belief. The same people organise anti fascist marches, disruptive action and insulting name calling (scum) against members of other legal political parties which are only beliefs not even clearly definable beliefs. This is actually also against human rights in that the free dissemination and discussion of a belief is held to be a human right.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 5:45:05 GMT
Most people are hypocritical on many points that is not a left trait it is a human trait. They hate racism but are racist is an odd remark, here I assume you are talking about 'white' privilege or more accurately the denial that it exists, please correct me if I am wrong but you give no example. It just sounds like you are reading off a list with no context or example, so I have to say that could apply to all wings of politics. Many people are hypocritical, it is the left that make it an art form. I am more than willing to give examples but if you could indulge me for a moment could you define racism for me please so I know exactly what example to reference. As regards hating ideologies but demanding respect for belief we have a very broad left view that Islamophobia is a hate crime which is very much taken to be anyone who dislikes or criticises Islam strongly and Islam is only a belief. The same people organise anti fascist marches, disruptive action and insulting name calling (scum) against members of other legal political parties which are only beliefs not even clearly definable beliefs. This is actually also against human rights in that the free dissemination and discussion of a belief is held to be a human right. You are the one that stated the left "They hate racism but are racist", I was seeking clarification on the statement, you see I am on the left and you have just called me a racist. Ah! Raynor and her scum remark, that's a bit weak isn't it, you are attempting to paint the left as people who go aroung calling the Tories scum based on one remark at a side event. Human rights?? scum?? lol.
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