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Post by sandypine on Oct 24, 2023 14:06:12 GMT
They share the value of the refugee convention. There are no different values as regards that outlook, the Gazans are not dangerous they are in danger. Acceptance of refugees does not depend on political outlook according to the left the only criteria is are they seeking safety from persecution or danger. According to you they are seeking asylum from both. As regards the 'effect' on Egypt of accepting asylum claims if you say that it will have a political and safety effect on Egypt then why would it be wrong for the UK to deliver the same reasons for sending the small boats back or even stopping them mid channel. I still cannot believe the double standards being applied and the assurance with which the left adopt their holier than thou but duplicitous moral code. Comparing what is happening at the border with Egypt and what is happening across the channel is stupid, they are worlds apart in consequences. There is no threat of all out war in the UK because a few boats with asylum seekers are crossing the channel, remember it is you lot that say France is a safe country. In the UK we have the ability to process asylum seekers and 'weed' out any undesirables, this becomes almost impossible at the Egypt/Gaza border. I understand why Egypt wish to not allow any refugees in, those judgements are sound. However they are political decisions and run counter to the refugee convention as regards those escaping directly from persecution or extreme danger. You say they are indeed escaping directly from those situations so there is no equivocation that they are refugees but represent a danger to Egypt. No one knows the actual consequences either in Egypt or here, we can only predict. The threat to the UK is one that has been realised already both in Lebanon and in Jordan and has caused many problems in both countries. This raises several questions. Why would we take any Palestinian refugees when other countries will not and the problems associated with them are there for all to see as a matter of history? Why can we not adopt political reasons for turning back boats and refusing entry to our waters of those most of whom we have no idea where they come from? Why does the left not criticise Egypt and Jordan for being racist? |
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Post by sheepy on Oct 25, 2023 8:00:05 GMT
Do you know, saying what is wrong with the left is no different from saying what is wrong with the right, I don't know one person who thinks the Conservatives have been a good government, on the other hand I don't know one person who doesn't say it will be even worse under Labour.
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 25, 2023 9:15:52 GMT
Do you know, saying what is wrong with the left is no different from saying what is wrong with the right, I don't know one person who thinks the Conservatives have been a good government, on the other hand I don't know one person who doesn't say it will be even worse under Labour. Well allow to introduce myself as the first person you've met who doesn't believe it will be worse under Labour. Not saying everything will be rosy overnight, there's a hell a lot of mess to clean up and I have some serious concerns about Keir Starmer but I think he's a better candidate than Sunak or anyone else the Tories can realistically put forward. The Tories are in a similar position to Labour in 2010 for me. Ran out of ideas, forgotten what they stand for or want to achieve and are just trying to cling on to power for the sake of it. A spell in opposition will do them good IMHO. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2023 9:40:33 GMT
Do you know, saying what is wrong with the left is no different from saying what is wrong with the right, I don't know one person who thinks the Conservatives have been a good government, on the other hand I don't know one person who doesn't say it will be even worse under Labour. It's one thing to stay at home twiddling your thumbs in a by election but when it counts you have to go and do something. Which is why the Tory voters will probably be back in the polling booths en masse next year. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2023 9:46:28 GMT
Well allow to introduce myself as the first person you've met who doesn't believe it will be worse under Labour. Not saying everything will be rosy overnight, there's a hell a lot of mess to clean up and I have some serious concerns about Keir Starmer but I think he's a better candidate than Sunak or anyone else the Tories can realistically put forward. The Tories are in a similar position to Labour in 2010 for me. Ran out of ideas, forgotten what they stand for or want to achieve and are just trying to cling on to power for the sake of it. A spell in opposition will do them good IMHO. One of SteveK's disciples has joined the forum. If anyone thought the wokerati on this board was bad, wait until you see what SteveK's second in command brings to the forum. Or, as some might say, welcome to the forum happyhornet, let's debate! |
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Post by buccaneer on Oct 25, 2023 9:48:47 GMT
One of SteveK's disciples has joined the forum. If anyone thought the wokerati on this board was bad, wait until you see what SteveK's second in command brings to the forum. Or, as some might say, welcome to the forum happyhornet, let's debate! If you don't know the poster's MO, you might well say that. Good luck. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2023 9:50:02 GMT
Well allow to introduce myself as the first person you've met who doesn't believe it will be worse under Labour. Not saying everything will be rosy overnight, there's a hell a lot of mess to clean up and I have some serious concerns about Keir Starmer but I think he's a better candidate than Sunak or anyone else the Tories can realistically put forward. The Tories are in a similar position to Labour in 2010 for me. Ran out of ideas, forgotten what they stand for or want to achieve and are just trying to cling on to power for the sake of it. A spell in opposition will do them good IMHO. One of SteveK's groomed members has joined the forum. If anyone thought the wokerati on this board was bad, wait until you see what SteveK's second in command brings to the forum. Thanks for the heads up. |
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Post by Bentley on Oct 25, 2023 9:51:33 GMT
Meanwhile in a forum far far away a “dog in the manger “mod is choking the ship jumper “ owners” ^forum for him and cancelling any internal dissent on the way .
Prepare to pick up a survivor or two .
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 25, 2023 9:55:01 GMT
Well allow to introduce myself as the first person you've met who doesn't believe it will be worse under Labour. Not saying everything will be rosy overnight, there's a hell a lot of mess to clean up and I have some serious concerns about Keir Starmer but I think he's a better candidate than Sunak or anyone else the Tories can realistically put forward. The Tories are in a similar position to Labour in 2010 for me. Ran out of ideas, forgotten what they stand for or want to achieve and are just trying to cling on to power for the sake of it. A spell in opposition will do them good IMHO. One of SteveK's groomed members has joined the forum. If anyone thought the wokerati on this board was bad, wait until you see what SteveK's second in command brings to the forum. Well so far I haven't brought ad-homs or personal attacks. |
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Post by ratcliff on Oct 25, 2023 15:31:41 GMT
Centre left? Don't make me laugh - he is simply the vanilla front man puppet with the left's fingers pulling all the strings in the background - when he tried to fire the appallingly gobby, out partying all night on the beer ginger growler , Rayner, he discovered he wasn't allowed to as she's a union plant and he's now had to appoint he shadow deputy PM. Keir Starmer was the favourite choice of members of the Labour Party to lead the party, in other words he was fairly elected as leader, therefore the accusation of him been a "front man" is complete nonsense. The deputy leader of the party was also elected, not appointed. The Labour Party including the Parliamentary Party, the National Executive, the Policy Forum and the membership is now dominated by the middle ground and moderate Left, the civil war in the Labour Party is over, its now the Tories turn to fight one another. The gobby ginger growler has not been elected as shadow deputy PM - she was appointed The leader of the labour party Sir Keir of the extra special just for him personal pension plan cannot get rid of her - when he tried to fire her his stringpullers on the left simply made sure that she was given even more powers to remind him of their powers |
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Post by ratcliff on Oct 25, 2023 15:39:30 GMT
Do you know, saying what is wrong with the left is no different from saying what is wrong with the right, I don't know one person who thinks the Conservatives have been a good government, on the other hand I don't know one person who doesn't say it will be even worse under Labour. Well allow to introduce myself as the first person you've met who doesn't believe it will be worse under Labour. Not saying everything will be rosy overnight, there's a hell a lot of mess to clean up and I have some serious concerns about Keir Starmer but I think he's a better candidate than Sunak or anyone else the Tories can realistically put forward. The Tories are in a similar position to Labour in 2010 for me. Ran out of ideas, forgotten what they stand for or want to achieve and are just trying to cling on to power for the sake of it. A spell in opposition will do them good IMHO. You think labour are better and can clear up ''mess''? How gullible , but typical of lefties- only way to clear up ''mess'' is to drastically reduce government spending I'd suggest aiming at a minimum 30% reduction in government spending starting with firing 30% of the civil service and making those remaining work for their salary - and switch all public sector pensions away from final salary schemes to those that most private sector workers now have due to the idiot Browns demolishing of private sector pensions |
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Post by happyhornet on Oct 25, 2023 15:48:09 GMT
Well allow to introduce myself as the first person you've met who doesn't believe it will be worse under Labour. Not saying everything will be rosy overnight, there's a hell a lot of mess to clean up and I have some serious concerns about Keir Starmer but I think he's a better candidate than Sunak or anyone else the Tories can realistically put forward. The Tories are in a similar position to Labour in 2010 for me. Ran out of ideas, forgotten what they stand for or want to achieve and are just trying to cling on to power for the sake of it. A spell in opposition will do them good IMHO. You think labour are better and can clear up ''mess''? How gullible , but typical of lefties- only way to clear up ''mess'' is to drastically reduce government spending I'd suggest aiming at a minimum 30% reduction in government spending starting with firing 30% of the civil service and making those remaining work for their salary - and switch all public sector pensions away from final salary schemes to those that most private sector workers now have due to the idiot Browns demolishing of private sector pensions I don't know if Labour can clear up the mess or not but I think it's pretty clear that the Tories can't. I'm not a lefty either, or a righty for that matter. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 25, 2023 16:28:17 GMT
Do you know, saying what is wrong with the left is no different from saying what is wrong with the right, I don't know one person who thinks the Conservatives have been a good government, on the other hand I don't know one person who doesn't say it will be even worse under Labour. I think you may find that is because the Conservatives are no longer of the right. They reside broadly to the centre left almost exactly the same position as the Labour party with the differences being minimal but Labour are more influenced by the left leaning and the Tories more influenced by the centre right leaning. The result is though that not much will change but Labour will be more tolerant and intolerant all at the same time |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 25, 2023 16:33:18 GMT
You think labour are better and can clear up ''mess''? How gullible , but typical of lefties- only way to clear up ''mess'' is to drastically reduce government spending I'd suggest aiming at a minimum 30% reduction in government spending starting with firing 30% of the civil service and making those remaining work for their salary - and switch all public sector pensions away from final salary schemes to those that most private sector workers now have due to the idiot Browns demolishing of private sector pensions I don't know if Labour can clear up the mess or not but I think it's pretty clear that the Tories can't. I'm not a lefty either, or a righty for that matter.
What's "The mess"?
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Post by sheepy on Oct 25, 2023 17:28:28 GMT
Do you know, saying what is wrong with the left is no different from saying what is wrong with the right, I don't know one person who thinks the Conservatives have been a good government, on the other hand I don't know one person who doesn't say it will be even worse under Labour. Well allow to introduce myself as the first person you've met who doesn't believe it will be worse under Labour. Not saying everything will be rosy overnight, there's a hell a lot of mess to clean up and I have some serious concerns about Keir Starmer but I think he's a better candidate than Sunak or anyone else the Tories can realistically put forward. The Tories are in a similar position to Labour in 2010 for me. Ran out of ideas, forgotten what they stand for or want to achieve and are just trying to cling on to power for the sake of it. A spell in opposition will do them good IMHO. Funnily enough that is exactly what the Tories said after Labour. Its all madness. Who as usual have managed to create more problems than they have ever fixed. |
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