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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 17, 2023 11:35:10 GMT
Do minorities need fair representation?. Surely all that is needed is fair access - whether they take up that opportunity is another matter. Yes, they do. Otherwise you are saying that they don't have the same abilities as the majority. More often than not, when they are applying for top jobs like the police, and they don't get it, they use the race card, 'it's because I am black' blah blah
When in reality the person who did get the job regardless of colour or religion, was clearly the better candidate with experience, qualifications and other requirements, but of course we know a lot of that now comes down to a box ticking exercise.
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Post by Orac on Oct 17, 2023 11:55:05 GMT
Do minorities need fair representation?. Surely all that is needed is fair access - whether they take up that opportunity is another matter. Yes, they do. Otherwise you are saying that they don't have the same abilities as the majority. That's a mental tangle. Isn't it quite possible that people don't have the same abilities? |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Oct 17, 2023 14:42:19 GMT
Do minorities need fair representation?. Surely all that is needed is fair access - whether they take up that opportunity is another matter. Yes, they do. Otherwise you are saying that they don't have the same abilities as the majority. No, you're saying that they don't and need "Special" help. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Oct 17, 2023 16:40:53 GMT
Ok let’s take that ‘the left are in the pocket of the unions’ then I’ve only one experience of union membership In 1977 as a starving student i took a job in the easter break at Merretts bakery where i witnessed the chemical reaction known as the Chorleywood Bread Process up close and personal as i put the crosses on a million hot cross buns 48 at a time As an employee in the bakery membership if the closed shop bakers union was mandatory and a deduction of one’s union dues was the first thing declared on the payslip ahead of Tax and NI as it was based on gross pay And of course part of that was the political levy I was forced to pay the labour party in order to work What i found singularly offensive was that in my last week on site before returning to uni i was asked to put in a load of overtime and the payroll girls messed up and i didn’t get the money in my last pay packet. The head of payroll on site found and instantly fessed up to the screwup. Fair enough. They couldn’t do anything about it on the spit but promised to sort it for the next weeks pay packet. Again fair enough i thought BUT When i went to collect my pay due the packet was only half what it should have been The bakers union demanded half of it as this was a different week and a full weeks union dues including the tax to the labour party had to be deducted I tried all manner of complaints but to no avail My MP did fuck all. Well he was Jim Callaghan after all I rejoiced when Maggie gave Scargill a kicking because i considered it a just punishment for union theft from my pay packet. Had they been a less thieving bunch of scum i might have had a bit of sympathy. In the light if their actions, not a chance The closed shop practice ended in 1990 and I for one never agreed with it. There is no doubt the unions made a lot of mistakes but they also did a lot of good. As to thatcher "Destroyed British industry and laid waste to communities that have never recovered." well, first of all we agree on something ! The thing is, as i said, this was my first ever experience of trade unions. I was twenty. The way i was treated literally alienated me for life. The Student Union at university simply reinforced my view that unions should be eradicated by thermonuclear fission. I wonder if they knew how much their one selfish act of theft radicalised me against their very existence. I doubt they gave a shit they were more interested in ripping tbe workers at that factory off. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 17, 2023 17:19:47 GMT
When people run out of sensible things to argue they refer back to Jeremy Corbyn.😂 The most Left-wing Labour Party Leader since Michael Foot and we are not supposed to mention him in a thread about the left of politics.. Dont be daft..  |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 17, 2023 17:22:15 GMT
Do minorities need fair representation?. Surely all that is needed is fair access - whether they take up that opportunity is another matter. Yes, they do. Otherwise you are saying that they don't have the same abilities as the majority. Well as an instance - Indians are over-presented in the Pharmacy sector. Do we really need government action to ensure that the numbers of Pakistanis, West Indians and Africans are increased to tackle that imbalance? |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 17, 2023 17:47:27 GMT
Of course it is, any selection based on an attribute is discrimination, the point is that levelling up, whatever it is, is not a race based selection. The whole point as regards 'historic racism' is that the vast majority of people believed that making a judgement as regards someone based on the colour of his skin was just plain wrong. Now it seems the left think that some must be judged by the colour of their skin and must be discriminated against to correct an historic injustice the level of which is uncertain and the continuance of which is a crime; even worse for which the individuals upon whom that new discrimination is enacted have no responsibility for the injustices or the crimes for which they are being discriminated against. So we have a racist government, what's new? I am not sure what that comment means. We have a racist government whose actions as regards making and applying law that discriminates in teh main against white people is fully supported by the left. Which of course is the point I have been making. The left say they are anti racist but cheer lead racial discrimination. As I said hypocrisy is the problem. |
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Post by sandypine on Oct 17, 2023 17:53:44 GMT
Do minorities need fair representation?. Surely all that is needed is fair access - whether they take up that opportunity is another matter. Yes, they do. Otherwise you are saying that they don't have the same abilities as the majority. On average all races have different abilities. It is why there are different representations on average otherwise we would expect to see about 3 white people and one black man in a British track relay team but you do not, or you would expect to see only about a dozen Jews in the Scientific and Financial world, or only a few Asians in the IT world. It is idiotic to believe that each group has identical abilities on average. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2023 22:32:20 GMT
So, whats wrong with The Left ?
Whether its "The Left" or "The Right" it encompasses a colossal spectrum of ideas, thoughts and opinions.
The Civil War that Labour had during Jeremy Corbyns leadership is now been experienced by The Conservative Party, its their turn.
The Civil War in the Labour Party was simple, it was Moderate Left versus the Orthodox Socialist Left, but the Civil War in the Conservative Party is more complicated, its Populist Right versus Traditional Conservatism.
The Labour Party is now a moderate, Left of centre, progressive political party with ideas and principles which will appeal to a wide cross section of society, but without forgetting its core traditional principles.
The Conservative Party is an on-going battle ground, if the traditional Conservatives win, then Red Wall seats will all return back to Labour. If the populists win control of the Conservative Party, then many Tory seats, particularly in the South, will switch to either Lib Dem or Labour.
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Post by Orac on Oct 17, 2023 23:26:09 GMT
Traditional conservatism vs post Blair neo conservatism
Btw..i think it's likely the Labour party is on the verge of exploding again.
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 17, 2023 23:28:31 GMT
Yes, they do. Otherwise you are saying that they don't have the same abilities as the majority. More often than not, when they are applying for top jobs like the police, and they don't get it, they use the race card, 'it's because I am black' blah blah
When in reality the person who did get the job regardless of colour or religion, was clearly the better candidate with experience, qualifications and other requirements, but of course we know a lot of that now comes down to a box ticking exercise.
Oh, I totally agree with you. So how do we ensure that things are fair so that false claims can't be made? |
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Post by johnofgwent on Oct 18, 2023 7:11:22 GMT
Yes, they do. Otherwise you are saying that they don't have the same abilities as the majority. More often than not, when they are applying for top jobs like the police, and they don't get it, they use the race card, 'it's because I am black' blah blah
When in reality the person who did get the job regardless of colour or religion, was clearly the better candidate with experience, qualifications and other requirements, but of course we know a lot of that now comes down to a box ticking exercise.
Although these days the application forms state categorically that heterosexual white men need not apply. In my own career i’ve seen the same discrimination I’m not entirely sure it’s a good thing to encourage people whose mental state is compromised by the piss poor size of their dick, or the fact they arrived in this world with one, or without one, to gain knowledge and expertise in the manufacture or operation of weapons of mass destruction or nuclear power plants. It just seems to me a person unhinged by the hand dealt to them from life’s deck of cards by fate or whoever / whatever celestial dealer you believe responsible is not a fit person to have such power. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 7:23:56 GMT
Yes, they do. Otherwise you are saying that they don't have the same abilities as the majority. More often than not, when they are applying for top jobs like the police, and they don't get it, they use the race card, 'it's because I am black' blah blah
When in reality the person who did get the job regardless of colour or religion, was clearly the better candidate with experience, qualifications and other requirements, but of course we know a lot of that now comes down to a box ticking exercise.
And that can be clearly seen from the calibre of the police top job incumbents. 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 7:26:12 GMT
The closed shop practice ended in 1990 and I for one never agreed with it. There is no doubt the unions made a lot of mistakes but they also did a lot of good. As to thatcher "Destroyed British industry and laid waste to communities that have never recovered." well, first of all we agree on something ! The thing is, as i said, this was my first ever experience of trade unions. I was twenty. The way i was treated literally alienated me for life. The Student Union at university simply reinforced my view that unions should be eradicated by thermonuclear fission. I wonder if they knew how much their one selfish act of theft radicalised me against their very existence. I doubt they gave a shit they were more interested in ripping tbe workers at that factory off. "The way i was treated literally alienated me for life." You must be alienated for life from all political parties and walks of life then. The unions today are a mile different from those in the 70s, 80s, and a good job too. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 18, 2023 8:01:42 GMT
More often than not, when they are applying for top jobs like the police, and they don't get it, they use the race card, 'it's because I am black' blah blah
When in reality the person who did get the job regardless of colour or religion, was clearly the better candidate with experience, qualifications and other requirements, but of course we know a lot of that now comes down to a box ticking exercise.
Oh, I totally agree with you. So how do we ensure that things are fair so that false claims can't be made? False claims can be made regardless of whether things are fair or not. That's part of the point of false claims. Given that fools like yourself are determined to enforce racial employment regulation, the optimal strategy for any agent is to ruthlessly push the interests of just his group. |
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