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Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 7:27:38 GMT
Most threads on here as they come to an end switch to who is far left and far right.
So I thought, lets try and define what people want from their left or right wing governments. Not the extremes of fascist or communist
In particular have we had too many centre ground governments trying to please everyone and failing to please anyone?
That thought came off the back of something I've seen several on here say, but particularly Pacifico who just said (I paraphrase)
"Name one Tory thing the Conservatives have done in the last 13 years"
Basically is the reason the country is not flying high due to a lack of courage from either side?
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 7, 2023 7:30:32 GMT
I think Margaret Thatcher gave the game away when she responded 'Tony Blair' when asked what she felt was her proudest achievement.
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Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 7:37:17 GMT
I think Margaret Thatcher gave the game away when she responded 'Tony Blair' when asked what she felt was her proudest achievement. Interesting. No one would doubt Thatcher and Blair were both very strong leaders. I would go further, both were committed to making the country better and not just career politicians. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Oct 7, 2023 7:38:06 GMT
In order to win a general election you have to have something that appeals to the swing voters. Most people are turned off by more extreme leaders, so people like Ian Duncan Smith or Michael Foot are less likely to win a General Election. 2019 was a bit of a weird one though, as a lot of normally Labour voting people voted Tory, so things have swung round. I expect a lot of those who voted Tory in 2019 may vote for other parties in 2024, be that Reform, LibDems, Labour or Green. Or not vote at all.
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 7, 2023 7:44:36 GMT
Most threads on here as they come to an end switch to who is far left and far right. So I thought, lets try and define what people want from their left or right wing governments. Not the extremes of fascist or communist In particular have we had too many centre ground governments trying to please everyone and failing to please anyone? That thought came off the back of something I've seen several on here say, but particularly Pacifico who just said (I paraphrase) "Name one Tory thing the Conservatives have done in the last 13 years" Basically is the reason the country is not flying high due to a lack of courage from either side?When all the major parties are advocating the same policies then managed decline is the result. For example we have a shortage of housing - we also have record numbers of migrants, a policy that all major parties are agreed on. We can never out-build the numbers coming so a housing shortage is inevitable, with all the negative effects on the economy that imposes. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 8:04:34 GMT
Most threads on here as they come to an end switch to who is far left and far right. So I thought, lets try and define what people want from their left or right wing governments. Not the extremes of fascist or communist In particular have we had too many centre ground governments trying to please everyone and failing to please anyone? That thought came off the back of something I've seen several on here say, but particularly Pacifico who just said (I paraphrase) "Name one Tory thing the Conservatives have done in the last 13 years" Basically is the reason the country is not flying high due to a lack of courage from either side?When all the major parties are advocating the same policies then managed decline is the result. For example we have a shortage of housing - we also have record numbers of migrants, a policy that all major parties are agreed on. We can never out-build the numbers coming so a housing shortage is inevitable, with all the negative effects on the economy that imposes. Yes we agree on the problem, but what is the solution. To get to that we need to get to the why's. Why do we invite 500,000 new people to live here every year and why don't we build enough houses for them when we do. ( Please Red Etc, don't steal this thread, we are not talking about illegal migrants here who only make up a tiny percentage of migrants and are a different problem) Why do we invite 500,000 new people to live here every year and why don't we build enough houses for them when we do. How is this going to get you re-elected? |
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Post by Orac on Oct 7, 2023 9:58:40 GMT
I think Margaret Thatcher gave the game away when she responded 'Tony Blair' when asked what she felt was her proudest achievement. I think Thatcher meant that in a certain sense. That the Labour party had been forced to reform significantly away from old-skool socialist roots. She felt she had won but seriously under-estimated the slippery, chameleon, hydra nature of her enemy. |
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Post by Orac on Oct 7, 2023 10:04:20 GMT
Zany,
Your question is a deflection - there is no solution to such an idiotic policy. The solution is stop hitting yourself with the hammer of immigration.
isn't the more fundamental question, why are the people who want this policy able to hold it in place, despite the clear opposition of the public?
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Post by Dan Dare on Oct 7, 2023 10:07:18 GMT
It is. Cui bono?
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Post by Fairsociety on Oct 7, 2023 10:09:38 GMT
I don't really remember the Thatcher era, but obviously know of her legacy, the one thing I think we can safely say she wouldn't have bought in to this woke nonsense, and no one would bully her in to it, and this is what the Tories are lacking, backbone, they have been browbeaten in to this woke snowflake bandwagon, having to choose every word carefully, they need to stop pondering to the lefty outraged, and start being a 'British Political Party'.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2023 11:15:01 GMT
I think Margaret Thatcher gave the game away when she responded 'Tony Blair' when asked what she felt was her proudest achievement. I think Thatcher meant that in a certain sense. That the Labour party had been forced to reform significantly away from old-skool socialist roots. She felt she had won but seriously under-estimated the slippery, chameleon, hydra nature of her enemy. Blair is a professional liar, and despite the high level of radioactive cringe he gave off many people were fooled by him. This cringe is also released from his supporters. They all seem to have this self-righteous and self-important role to play, which is so fake it's often sickening. I'm not surprised the media is voting for Starmer. He's probably the final nail in the coffin. |
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Post by Pacifico on Oct 7, 2023 11:32:27 GMT
When all the major parties are advocating the same policies then managed decline is the result. For example we have a shortage of housing - we also have record numbers of migrants, a policy that all major parties are agreed on. We can never out-build the numbers coming so a housing shortage is inevitable, with all the negative effects on the economy that imposes. Yes we agree on the problem, but what is the solution. To get to that we need to get to the why's. Why do we invite 500,000 new people to live here every year and why don't we build enough houses for them when we do. ( Please Red Etc, don't steal this thread, we are not talking about illegal migrants here who only make up a tiny percentage of migrants and are a different problem) Why do we invite 500,000 new people to live here every year and why don't we build enough houses for them when we do. How is this going to get you re-elected?
Well they all get elected by promising the opposite - however in power they do a 180.. The public never vote for higher immigration. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 11:36:16 GMT
Zany, Your question is a deflection - there is no solution to such an idiotic policy. The solution is stop hitting yourself with the hammer of immigration. isn't the more fundamental question, why are the people who want this policy able to hold it in place, despite the clear opposition of the public? "Your question is a deflection" Your question is sadly going to be ignored because you just can't be civil. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 11:38:44 GMT
Yes we agree on the problem, but what is the solution. To get to that we need to get to the why's. Why do we invite 500,000 new people to live here every year and why don't we build enough houses for them when we do. ( Please Red Etc, don't steal this thread, we are not talking about illegal migrants here who only make up a tiny percentage of migrants and are a different problem) Why do we invite 500,000 new people to live here every year and why don't we build enough houses for them when we do. How is this going to get you re-elected?
Well they all get elected by promising the opposite - however in power they do a 180.. The public never vote for higher immigration. Serious Pacifico. The Tories have been re-elected time and again promising the same thing. Question is WHY do they keep breaking that promise. Why do they want to risk the public turning against them if there is no benefit from immigration. |
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Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 11:40:54 GMT
My theory is that it to keep tax lower while demand for services grows. But others dismiss this. |
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