|
|
Post by jonksy on Oct 7, 2023 7:23:47 GMT
So in other words you cannot refute the FACTS. What you posted was merely an insult, not a fact. Facts need to contain information of substance. No it was not an insult to normal people its just the forever offended are the ones who see it as so. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Oct 7, 2023 7:25:41 GMT
The public is not switching to Labour - conservative voters are staying home as there is nobody to vote for. We saw in Uxbridge what happens when a Tory candidate articulates an actual conservative policy.. So when Grant Shapps asked Khan to expand Ulez this wasn't a Tory policy? Seems to me like it was just a bit of political opportunism to latch on to the unpopularity of the expansion rather than the enactment of an actual Tory policy. You are confusing the Tory Party with conservatives - this seems to be the basis of all your errors. As for Shapps - he will advocate anything if it gets him an inch up the greasy pole.. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 7:30:36 GMT
Interesting. So the result of the Tories being too far left is the public switching to Labour? The public is not switching to Labour - conservative voters are staying home as there is nobody to vote for. We saw in Uxbridge what happens when a Tory candidate articulates an actual conservative policy.. I wont dispute that. Let me adjust my comment to suit. So the result of the Tories being to far left is Conservatives allowing Labour to win the election? |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 7:34:13 GMT
So when Grant Shapps asked Khan to expand Ulez this wasn't a Tory policy? Seems to me like it was just a bit of political opportunism to latch on to the unpopularity of the expansion rather than the enactment of an actual Tory policy. You are confusing the Tory Party with conservatives - this seems to be the basis of all your errors. As for Shapps - he will advocate anything if it gets him an inch up the greasy pole.. Agreed. The current Tories leadership is just dreadful self interested popularists. It really started with Boris, telling the people he could give them what they wanted even if he really couldn't, just to be popular on the day. |
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Oct 7, 2023 7:42:35 GMT
So when Grant Shapps asked Khan to expand Ulez this wasn't a Tory policy? Seems to me like it was just a bit of political opportunism to latch on to the unpopularity of the expansion rather than the enactment of an actual Tory policy. You are confusing the Tory Party with conservatives - this seems to be the basis of all your errors. As for Shapps - he will advocate anything if it gets him an inch up the greasy pole.. Ah, OK. I was talking specifically about the parliamentary party. If you are referring to the membership, then yes, they seem to want something different to what the country actually wants, given that they voted for Liz Truss. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Oct 7, 2023 7:46:43 GMT
You are confusing the Tory Party with conservatives - this seems to be the basis of all your errors. As for Shapps - he will advocate anything if it gets him an inch up the greasy pole.. Ah, OK. I was talking specifically about the parliamentary party. If you are referring to the membership, then yes, they seem to want something different to what the country actually wants, given that they voted for Liz Truss. If you cannot get your voters to vote for you then, as a political party, you have a problem. There is an appetite from a large sector of the electorate for a conservative government - but if that is not on offer why bother voting?. |
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Oct 7, 2023 7:51:03 GMT
Ah, OK. I was talking specifically about the parliamentary party. If you are referring to the membership, then yes, they seem to want something different to what the country actually wants, given that they voted for Liz Truss. If you cannot get your voters to vote for you then, as a political party, you have a problem. There is an appetite from a large sector of the electorate for a conservative government - but if that is not on offer why bother voting?. Where are you seeing this appetite, as the Liz Truss experience seems to show the opposite? |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Oct 7, 2023 7:54:06 GMT
If you cannot get your voters to vote for you then, as a political party, you have a problem. There is an appetite from a large sector of the electorate for a conservative government - but if that is not on offer why bother voting?. Where are you seeing this appetite, as the Liz Truss experience seems to show the opposite? We had an election with Truss standing? The 2 most popular politicians at the Tory conference were Truss and Farage - which shows that the conservative agenda can be popular when it is articulated. All across Europe right-wing parties are gaining massive siupport - why would the UK be any different? |
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Oct 7, 2023 8:00:58 GMT
Where are you seeing this appetite, as the Liz Truss experience seems to show the opposite? We had an election with Truss standing? The 2 most popular politicians at the Tory conference were Truss and Farage - which shows that the conservative agenda can be popular when it is articulated. All across Europe right-wing parties are gaining massive siupport - why would the UK be any different? No, but Tory popularity fell off a cliff when she became PM. Given the unpopularity of Boris when he resigned, that was quite an achievement. Yes, she is popular with the Tory membership. That isn't the large section of the electorate though that you are claiming. |
|
|
|
Post by sheepy on Oct 7, 2023 8:07:29 GMT
We had an election with Truss standing? The 2 most popular politicians at the Tory conference were Truss and Farage - which shows that the conservative agenda can be popular when it is articulated. All across Europe right-wing parties are gaining massive siupport - why would the UK be any different? No, but Tory popularity fell off a cliff when she became PM. Given the unpopularity of Boris when he resigned, that was quite an achievement. Yes, she is popular with the Tory membership. That isn't the large section of the electorate though that you are claiming. How do you know that is true? because for sure the upper of echelons of the Tory party had already chosen their leader and Truss was seen as an upstart, the Establishment went into overdrive to get rid of her. I am not so sure she was so unpopular as the situation they created against her would say. Even before Covid we knew the Tories were looking for a slow but sure way back into the EU and if throwing the next election was needed they would do it and let Labour do the rest of the donkey work. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 8:09:02 GMT
We had an election with Truss standing? The 2 most popular politicians at the Tory conference were Truss and Farage - which shows that the conservative agenda can be popular when it is articulated. All across Europe right-wing parties are gaining massive siupport - why would the UK be any different? No, but Tory popularity fell off a cliff when she became PM. Given the unpopularity of Boris when he resigned, that was quite an achievement. Yes, she is popular with the Tory membership. That isn't the large section of the electorate though that you are claiming. Some might argue she came at the wrong end of the election cycle. Imagine she had come just after an election and got the backing to see through her ideas? Would they have worked. |
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 8:12:17 GMT
No, but Tory popularity fell off a cliff when she became PM. Given the unpopularity of Boris when he resigned, that was quite an achievement. Yes, she is popular with the Tory membership. That isn't the large section of the electorate though that you are claiming. How do you know that is true? because for sure the upper of echelons of the Tory party had already chosen their leader and Truss was seen as an upstart, the Establishment went into overdrive to get rid of her. I am not so sure she was so unpopular as the situation they created against her would say. Even before Covid we knew the Tories were looking for a slow but sure way back into the EU and if throwing the next election was needed they would do it and let Labour do the rest of the donkey work. You may have something here. Boris got the Tories re-elected by promising to get Brexit done (So we are continually told). Tory voters voted for a party determined to get us back into the EU. Were the Tories very clever or their voters very stupid |
|
|
|
Post by jonksy on Oct 7, 2023 8:12:21 GMT
No, but Tory popularity fell off a cliff when she became PM. Given the unpopularity of Boris when he resigned, that was quite an achievement. Yes, she is popular with the Tory membership. That isn't the large section of the electorate though that you are claiming. Some might argue she came at the wrong end of the election cycle. Imagine she had come just after an election and got the backing to see through her ideas? Would they have worked. That's the leading question Zany we will never know as the sunak supporters got their own way. Also another thing that overtook her premiership was our Queen dying. |
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Oct 7, 2023 8:15:27 GMT
It is strange that the Queen died a couple of days after meeting Liz Truss. I wonder if the two events were connected.
|
|
|
|
Post by zanygame on Oct 7, 2023 8:19:24 GMT
Some might argue she came at the wrong end of the election cycle. Imagine she had come just after an election and got the backing to see through her ideas? Would they have worked. That's the leading question Zany we will never know as the sunak supporters got their own way. Also another thing that overtook her premiership was our Queen dying. Well yes it does require some thought and speculation, but presumably those support Truss and her ideas had an inkling of the result. |
|
