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Post by sheepy on Sept 27, 2023 8:15:39 GMT
FFS there really isnt much more than can be said here. As far as I can tell we are all agreeing. Our country needs to protect our establishment. Far more important to subsidise the education of the kids of our establishment than spend the money instead on improving education of council estate kids in Stoke. That is obvious. Its exactly the same with inheritance tax. We need to preserve the wealth and status of our establishment and not have ridiculous notions on raising tax revenues so we can have a decent education system and health system for the hoi polloi. Dont these people understand what Brexit was all about. Except about who gets the money? |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 27, 2023 11:35:54 GMT
History does show us that given the right education those from the bottom can succeed and there was a time when the state system offered that. we have moved on a long way from the 1944 Education Act that introduced the tripartite system and, although it would be great I cannot see us going back to that. So having scrapped on part of the education that worked well we are now onto trying to scrap another - rather than damaging the bits that do work well why not try the hard part and fix the State system? - or is 'equality' more important than outcome nowdays? |
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Post by Handyman on Sept 27, 2023 13:03:06 GMT
All down to spite and envy i agree.
What i want to know is if the labour party have all the answers for education in general and know whats good for us in all the uk nations , why is it the one uk nation , wales , where they have been in charge consistently for nealry a quarter of a century has also consistently been at the bottom of the league tables for education ?
New international Pisa schools tables show Wales remains behind other UK nations
The Pisa results are published every three years and show how Wales' education system compares to others around the world
I agree Labour should be concerned about that, but to busy trying to blame everything on the Tories in the run up to the GE hoping some will believe their nonsense |
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Post by wapentake on Sept 27, 2023 16:04:30 GMT
History does show us that given the right education those from the bottom can succeed and there was a time when the state system offered that. we have moved on a long way from the 1944 Education Act that introduced the tripartite system and, although it would be great I cannot see us going back to that. So having scrapped on part of the education that worked well we are now onto trying to scrap another - rather than damaging the bits that do work well why not try the hard part and fix the State system? - or is 'equality' more important than outcome nowdays? Got to get the hard route and fix the state education. Its not about equality if it means dumbing down it’s about opportunity. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 27, 2023 16:35:02 GMT
we have moved on a long way from the 1944 Education Act that introduced the tripartite system and, although it would be great I cannot see us going back to that. So having scrapped on part of the education that worked well we are now onto trying to scrap another - rather than damaging the bits that do work well why not try the hard part and fix the State system? - or is 'equality' more important than outcome nowdays? Got to get the hard route and fix the state education.Its not about equality if it means dumbing down it’s about opportunity. So how do we do that?. Personally I've lost count of the number of reforms the system has had over the years and it doesn't seem to get any better - is there anything we have not tried? |
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 27, 2023 16:59:22 GMT
History does show us that given the right education those from the bottom can succeed and there was a time when the state system offered that. we have moved on a long way from the 1944 Education Act that introduced the tripartite system and, although it would be great I cannot see us going back to that. So having scrapped on part of the education that worked well we are now onto trying to scrap another - rather than damaging the bits that do work well why not try the hard part and fix the State system? - or is 'equality' more important than outcome nowdays? I don't see why going back to the tripartite system should be such an insuperable hurdle. The only reasons it's not still in effect are ideology and cowardice .
All the UK would have to do is to study the German educational system (and the Austrian and Swiss) to find out how to do it right.
The thing we buggered up last time was the technical branch. Not so much buggered up as rather never got it going in the first place. The German Duales System shows the right way to do it.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 27, 2023 17:04:16 GMT
Well I think you have answered your own question there - the education establishment (and half the politicians) are ideologically opposed. So the chances of any technical or academic selection are simply zero.
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Post by wapentake on Sept 27, 2023 17:32:13 GMT
Got to get the hard route and fix the state education.Its not about equality if it means dumbing down it’s about opportunity. So how do we do that?. Personally I've lost count of the number of reforms the system has had over the years and it doesn't seem to get any better - is there anything we have not tried? Dan the man is right we need to go back to the tripartite system |
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 27, 2023 17:38:07 GMT
Well I think you have answered your own question there - the education establishment (and half the politicians) are ideologically opposed. So the chances of any technical or academic selection are simply zero. As little as twenty years ago the notion that homosexuals could get married let alone that a Conservative prime minister would actively campaign for it would have seemed equally unlikely.
Ten years ago the idea that the UK would depart the EU seemed just as outlandish.
And yet, and yet...
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Post by dodgydave on Sept 27, 2023 23:41:38 GMT
Populist nonsense from Labour. They should concentrate on improving opportunities, rather pushing some weird communist idea that we are all equal lol. It's populist among the people that have to send their kids to schools that are falling down and understaffed. So what is his policy to stop them falling down and staff them better? This populist nonsense raises what, less than 1% of the education budget...and that's before you question their dubious figures, or factor in how private schools / parents will manage a way around it. It's depressing, all their policies are based on the politics of envy. If they want to seriously reform, they need to tell us what they are going to defund, because changing priorities is the only way to make all their promises add up. Peddling fairytale economics might appeal to you, but personally I would rather they put forward an actual solution. Ffs they want to put a mental health nurse in every school. If they didn't peddle the narrative that everybody is a victim and the world is about to end we wouldn't have such a generation of wet lettuces. |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 28, 2023 21:09:59 GMT
Starmer pulling up the ladder behind him...
"Take Starmer’s alma mater, the £21,000-a-year Reigate Grammar. Its bursaries work out at 100 fully-funded places a year, so children from modest homes are able to enjoy the same education as Sir Keir. How many would continue to do so?"
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Post by dappy on Sept 28, 2023 21:44:53 GMT
Starmer went to a state school which then converted to a private school midway through his education.
Does the establishment seriously believe that ordinary people are going to believe that the massive subsidy the state gives to establishment kids private education rather than being spent on ordinary state schools somehow benefits ordinary kids education?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2023 22:05:47 GMT
Populist nonsense from Labour. They should concentrate on improving opportunities, rather pushing some weird communist idea that we are all equal lol. It's populist among the people that have to send their kids to schools that are falling down and understaffed. Just keep flooding the country with people who have ten kids a head. At least you'll have something to virtue signal over.
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Post by Bentley on Sept 28, 2023 22:19:02 GMT
Starmer went to a state school which then converted to a private school midway through his education. Does the establishment seriously believe that ordinary people are going to believe that the massive subsidy the state gives to establishment kids private education rather than being spent on ordinary state schools somehow benefits ordinary kids education? Does the subsidy equal the whole cost of the kids education if it were in a state school ? If not the answer is yes . |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 29, 2023 6:46:46 GMT
Starmer went to a state school which then converted to a private school midway through his education. Does the establishment seriously believe that ordinary people are going to believe that the massive subsidy the state gives to establishment kids private education rather than being spent on ordinary state schools somehow benefits ordinary kids education? There is no subsidy to private education. |
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