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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 15, 2023 14:45:52 GMT
So starts a 'briefing' in the current issue of the Economist.
"...Across much of Europe, populist right-wing parties like Vlaams Belang, once relegated to the fringe, are going from strength to strength. In Hungary, Italy and Poland they hold power. In Finland, Sweden and Switzerland they have a share of it. In Germany polls put the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party at 22%, up from 10% in the election in 2021. In France the National Rally (RN), the biggest hard-right party, has 24% support. Add in 5% for Reconquest, another anti-immigrant party, and the hard right becomes the biggest voting block in the country. In the Netherlands, too, a smattering of right-wing populists claim a quarter or more of the vote. Even newish democracies that for decades lacked big nationalist parties—Portugal, Romania and Spain—now have them."
Four of the five most populous countries in the EU now have hard-right/populist parties in government or polling above 20%. But how has this come about? According to the Economist, there are three reasons why countries where governments seemed to have regained a measure of public trust and support during the pandemic now seem to be sliding towards populism:
"...First, support is remarkably broad. Second, the current circumstances are especially propitious for populist parties, with immigration rising after a hiatus during the pandemic, inflation high and the growing cost of climate policy creating a potent new focus for popular ire. Third, and most important, the hard right does not need to win power to have a baleful impact on politics. Simply by attracting a big share of voters, it is already skewing the debate, and so making it harder for European governments to adopt sensible policies on pressing problems, such as the war in Ukraine, immigration and climate change."
The question that arises is, of course, given that the conditions driving the growth of hard-right parties are just as prevalent in the UK as on the continent, and perhaps even more so, how is it that the UK has so far proved impervious to populist argument? Is it the usual question of lack of charismatic and cohesive leadership or is it, as the Economist implies, that the UK has already had its own fling with populism in the form of UKIP and the Brexit referendum they forced to Conservatives to conduct, and the electorate don't want any more of it?
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Post by andrewbrown on Sept 15, 2023 15:54:22 GMT
I think that our populists have proved to be rather inept. Not unique to the UK, you can look to the US too. I think that both nations are purely seeking "competent" at the moment.
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Post by Montegriffo on Sept 15, 2023 15:56:53 GMT
Cool, when do the pogroms start?
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Post by wapentake on Sept 15, 2023 16:03:13 GMT
Cool, when do the pogroms start? Well it’s fine to make light of it Monte but Dan is quite wrong the electorate have not had enough,they may be holding back but imo this is a temporary issue unless the main parties start listening because on their present trajectory patience is wearing thin and sadly what might not be contemplated now will become perhaps more appealing. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 15, 2023 16:27:20 GMT
The question really is whether, in the event that a hard-right/populist political faction were to get its act together, the Great British Public would be immune to their blandishments in a way that our continental neighbours have not been.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 15, 2023 17:09:05 GMT
Th only difference between the UK and the rest of Europe is that they have PR and we dont (yet). If we had the same voting system as them then the Far Right in the UK would be as much of a force as it is everywhere else.
Given that FPTP is not working then PR, with all it's negative issues, needs to be tried.
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Post by bancroft on Sept 15, 2023 17:39:09 GMT
It is always the form of PR, there are key major differences...............
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Post by Orac on Sept 15, 2023 18:03:08 GMT
I'm not going to try to pretend the prospect of a conservative EU is entirely un-amusing.
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Post by Dan Dare on Sept 15, 2023 18:07:24 GMT
FPTP has always proved a bulwark for the Old Gang parties, preventing the emergence of fringe political factions except those which don't present any form of existential threat.
UKIP showed the effect of that in 2015. Despite winning 12.6% of the popular vote, more than every other 'nationalist' party and the LibDems combined, it failed to win a single seat other than the one brought over previously by Douglas Carswell. The SNP with 4.7% of the popular won 56 seats.
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Post by bancroft on Sept 15, 2023 18:15:45 GMT
FPTP has always proved a bulwark for the Old Gang parties, preventing the emergence of fringe political factions except those which don't present any form of existential threat. UKIP showed the effect of that in 2015. Despite winning 12.6% of the popular vote, more than every other 'nationalist' party and the LibDems combined, it failed to win a single seat other than the one brought over previously by Douglas Carswell. The SNP with 4.7% of the popular won 56 seats. Don't forget a Tory went to jail over that seat that Farage was contesting over election spending, much later. We don't know how many other tricks were going on at times which did not go public. I agree that UKIP lacked good MP prospects (there is reason for that too, the other parties have a way to milk the system) yet gained 5m million votes for UKIP and this was more than either the Lib Dems or the SNP got and was making a mockery of our political system as UKIP was bigger without any seats. The only PR system that would have recognised UKIP in the EU was Germany to my knowledge. |
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 15, 2023 18:52:42 GMT
So starts a 'briefing' in the current issue of the Economist.
"...Across much of Europe, populist right-wing parties like Vlaams Belang, once relegated to the fringe, are going from strength to strength. In Hungary, Italy and Poland they hold power. In Finland, Sweden and Switzerland they have a share of it. In Germany polls put the Alternative for Germany (AfD) party at 22%, up from 10% in the election in 2021. In France the National Rally (RN), the biggest hard-right party, has 24% support. Add in 5% for Reconquest, another anti-immigrant party, and the hard right becomes the biggest voting block in the country. In the Netherlands, too, a smattering of right-wing populists claim a quarter or more of the vote. Even newish democracies that for decades lacked big nationalist parties—Portugal, Romania and Spain—now have them."
Four of the five most populous countries in the EU now have hard-right/populist parties in government or polling above 20%. But how has this come about? According to the Economist, there are three reasons why countries where governments seemed to have regained a measure of public trust and support during the pandemic now seem to be sliding towards populism:
"...First, support is remarkably broad. Second, the current circumstances are especially propitious for populist parties, with immigration rising after a hiatus during the pandemic, inflation high and the growing cost of climate policy creating a potent new focus for popular ire. Third, and most important, the hard right does not need to win power to have a baleful impact on politics. Simply by attracting a big share of voters, it is already skewing the debate, and so making it harder for European governments to adopt sensible policies on pressing problems, such as the war in Ukraine, immigration and climate change."
The question that arises is, of course, given that the conditions driving the growth of hard-right parties are just as prevalent in the UK as on the continent, and perhaps even more so, how is it that the UK has so far proved impervious to populist argument? Is it the usual question of lack of charismatic and cohesive leadership or is it, as the Economist implies, that the UK has already had its own fling with populism in the form of UKIP and the Brexit referendum they forced to Conservatives to conduct, and the electorate don't want any more of it?
Are they really right wing or alt-left socialist parties?
Not that it overly matters, fptp prevents anyone but Labour or Tory gaining a significant foothold here.
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Post by Equivocal on Sept 16, 2023 6:01:15 GMT
I think that our populists have proved to be rather inept. Not unique to the UK, you can look to the US too. I think that both nations are purely seeking "competent" at the moment. Perhaps, or perhaps Orwell's theory about goose-stepping in England still holds true?
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Post by steppenwolf on Sept 16, 2023 6:49:59 GMT
"Hard Right populism is ... skewing the debate, and so making it harder for European governments to adopt sensible policies on pressing problems"
What absolute bollocks. These parties are not Hard Right in any way - they simply don't want their country to be swamped by illegal immigrants from alien cultures. And "populism" is just the word that the hard Left use to sneer at people who get more votes than they get. As for "skewing the debate" they're not skewing it - they're the only fucking people who are actually having the debate about things that the people are worried about. And the idea of current European governments "having sensible policies on pressing problems" is beyond satire. They're mostly ignoring "pressing problems" and they wouldn't recognise a sensible policy if it bit them in the arse.
And the reason why the Reform party - despite the fact that it has "populist" policies - doesn't poll very well (yet) is because the public always seem to vote Labour or Conservative at GEs because our voting system means that voting for minority parties is basically just a wasted vote. Unfortunately voting for either of the main parties is also now a wasted vote as they have exactly the same (stupid) policies.
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Post by The Squeezed Middle on Sept 16, 2023 7:25:28 GMT
Spot on.
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Post by Dubdrifter on Sept 16, 2023 7:56:06 GMT
I think that our populists have proved to be rather inept. Not unique to the UK, you can look to the US too. I think that both nations are purely seeking "competent" at the moment. Perhaps, or perhaps Orwell's theory about goose-stepping in England still holds true?  We can thank Totalitarian Deep State/Religious intransigence trashing our Democratic mandates for this current State of Decay. … this is what you get when you mix forced multiculturalism, forced immigration of incompatible tribes, broken borders, MSM-generated Shamocracies, dumbed down history and Coudenhove-Kalergi MOSSAD interference in European indigenous tribal affairs. … are these guys giving Nazi salutes … er … Ukrainians .. by any chance ??🤔 … or just hard Left Anarchists whose arms twitched up impulsively on their day off pretending they were Liberals?😋 12 people and one pathetic banner and 6 Nazi salutes hardly makes for a major political shift to the Hard Right in Europe. …. Could that camera viewfinder be any tighter? …. Looks like another pathetic attempt by the Zionist Press to push us to deliver another knee-jerk reaction … and mandate … another 40 years of their Hard LEFT politics … yes, REAL ultra-Fascist HARD LEFT Nazi Totalitarianism …. as dished out by the EU. 🤔 …. as another tanker-load of caviar and Moët Champagne is delivered to EU Commission HQ in Brussels. 🙄 … courtesy of Net+Yahoo and Chums! |
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