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Post by colbops on Nov 12, 2022 11:42:58 GMT
Coleman's projections are based on official statistics from the ONS and a set of assumptions regarding fertility, mortality and migration. They are perfectly sound.
Perhaps you ought to share your ideas about limiting immigration to a 'more sustainable rate' with the government - they don't seem to have a clue about how to go about doing that. Brexit was supposed to be the silver bullet, but all that accomplished was a change in source countries. The migrant streams themselves are undiminished, in fact quite the opposite.
As for birth rates, I touched on 'natural growth' for different ethnic groups earlier in the thread.
No because Coleman assumed that fertility levels were determined by ethnicity and not circumstance so his 2010 paper predicting 2066 (which is hardly your pretence of 'soon') disregarded (deliberately?) that second and third generation descendants of immigrants increasingly match the indigenous fertility rates. What else would one expect of a co-founder of Migration watch? I find it bizzare how the likes of Dan Dare and Steve argue about the minutiae, and that you Caucasians are at each others throats over race, as you preside over your own decline.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 12, 2022 11:56:46 GMT
You're not one of them, then? A Caucasian.
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Post by Steve on Nov 12, 2022 12:03:13 GMT
Perhaps you can share with us your source for Coleman's 2010 fertility projections for ethnic groups. I assume you have the data to hand and have referred to it before posting given the tone of certainty of your pronouncements. So, put up or shut up. Actually it was you that made the first assertion I've done his twisted analysis in another place, will try to did it out but no promises as some records there are lost through host change and I'm not doing the research again. Coleman's actual paper seem hard to now find on the web. Update: see posts 87 and 95 here where I took apart Coleman's report. As I said though the links to his report are expired but basically his 2010 report just repeated without review his earlier report and both make the racist assumption that fertility rates of second and third generations will be the same as first generation immigrants. But they are not.
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Post by sandypine on Nov 12, 2022 15:30:47 GMT
Perhaps you can share with us your source for Coleman's 2010 fertility projections for ethnic groups. I assume you have the data to hand and have referred to it before posting given the tone of certainty of your pronouncements. So, put up or shut up. Actually it was you that made the first assertion I've done his twisted analysis in another place, will try to did it out but no promises as some records there are lost through host change and I'm not doing the research again. Coleman's actual paper seem hard to now find on the web. Update: see posts 87 and 95 here where I took apart Coleman's report. As I said though the links to his report are expired but basically his 2010 report just repeated without review his earlier report and both make the racist assumption that fertility rates of second and third generations will be the same as first generation immigrants. But they are not.They are very similar for some and lower for others but it seems to take one or two generations to work through. What is clear is that with 10 million first generation the higher birth rates will have a significant effect for this generation and the next. If the next generation includes a similar number of foreign born nationals then birth rates will stay high. What is not clear in terms of mixed marriages is to which birth rate will those marriages veer and will that depend on the genders of each. There seems to be no two ways about it we will be fast approaching 50% by the end of the generation being born now unless illegal immigration is dealt with, most 'refugees' are denied and immigration controlled. I hold out no hope of any of that happening
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Post by Steve on Nov 12, 2022 17:40:15 GMT
But that 10 million includes people that are temporarily in the UK and several generations will be gone through before we get to that 2066 supposed 'most non white' point.
Coleman was talking bollocks to get publicity. Sadly some fell for it
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Post by sheepy on Nov 12, 2022 17:50:52 GMT
No because Coleman assumed that fertility levels were determined by ethnicity and not circumstance so his 2010 paper predicting 2066 (which is hardly your pretence of 'soon') disregarded (deliberately?) that second and third generation descendants of immigrants increasingly match the indigenous fertility rates. What else would one expect of a co-founder of Migration watch? I find it bizzare how the likes of Dan Dare and Steve argue about the minutiae, and that you Caucasians are at each others throats over race, as you preside over your own decline. The decline as you put it, has been going on for a while, now it is just accelerating.
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Post by colbops on Nov 12, 2022 18:10:55 GMT
I find it bizzare how the likes of Dan Dare and Steve argue about the minutiae, and that you Caucasians are at each others throats over race, as you preside over your own decline. The decline as you put it, has been going on for a while, now it is just accelerating. So what are you all going to do? Accept your grandchildren are going to be minorities and hope that they get treated favourably by those you are handing control to, or are you going to start encouraging your children to procreate with the races that are set to dominate in the future, thus ensuring your grandchildren's acceptance?
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Post by sheepy on Nov 12, 2022 18:15:16 GMT
The decline as you put it, has been going on for a while, now it is just accelerating. So what are you all going to do? Accept your grandchildren are going to be minorities and hope that they get treated favourably by those you are handing control to, or are you going to start encouraging your children to procreate with the races that are set to dominate in the future, thus ensuring your grandchildren's acceptance? Can't say I am particularly bothered by it as according to science the sun will finish us all off long before then, there several reasons to assume population control is in the wings anyway.
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Post by Bentley on Nov 12, 2022 18:24:49 GMT
The decline as you put it, has been going on for a while, now it is just accelerating. So what are you all going to do? Accept your grandchildren are going to be minorities and hope that they get treated favourably by those you are handing control to, or are you going to start encouraging your children to procreate with the races that are set to dominate in the future, thus ensuring your grandchildren's acceptance? What races are ‘ set to dominate in the future ‘? 😁
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Post by colbops on Nov 12, 2022 18:44:27 GMT
So what are you all going to do? Accept your grandchildren are going to be minorities and hope that they get treated favourably by those you are handing control to, or are you going to start encouraging your children to procreate with the races that are set to dominate in the future, thus ensuring your grandchildren's acceptance? What races are ‘ set to dominate in the future ‘? 😁 According to Dan Dare 's stats it looks like Asians are going to take the win. I'm curious as to how that will play out. Will they live harmony once they do take over, or will the UK have to go the way of the motherland and be partitioned into Hindu and Muslim territories at that point? What will happen to minorities in this new dynamic. Will the new masters of these shores be benevolent towards other groups? Fascinating stuff.
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Post by vlk on Nov 12, 2022 18:52:09 GMT
But what is the amount of population at which point nobody says that it still not too much let's bring in more? Surely there must be a specific number.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 12, 2022 18:53:22 GMT
Not 'Caucasians' apparently if Brother Colmops is to be taken seriously. But back to the topic, or more correctly, Steve's braggadocio about 'taking apart' David Coleman's paper Projections of the Ethnic Minority populations of the United Kingdom 2006- 2056 and, in particular his claim that 'both (both what?) make the racist assumption that fertility rates of second and third generations will be the same as first generation immigrants'. In fact Coleman does nothing of the sort. If anyone other than Steve himself told such porkies he'd be jumping up and down denouncing them as 'a liar'. But I'll be charitable and just say instead he's misguided. This is actually what Coleman had to say on the topic of differential ethnic fertility in his actual paper as opposed to what Steve imagined he'd said. Sorry it's a long but it's probably the only way to shut him up. And here is the aforesaid Table 3, which as anyone can see gives the lie to Steve's ludicrous claim that "Coleman assumed that fertility levels were determined by ethnicity and not circumstance so his 2010 paper predicting 2066 (which is hardly your pretence of 'soon') disregarded (deliberately?) that second and third generation descendants of immigrants increasingly match the indigenous fertility rates." As can be seen Coleman's projection assumes that ethnic tfr, even that of the most fecund groups, will over the long-term fall to replacement level, or below. Indeed some of them already had even by 2010, some even lower than the native population, which fell below replacement level in the early 70s. But then differential fertility and birth rates were never the central plank of Coleman's argument, immigration filled that role instead. Perhaps we'll take that up next and deconstruct Steve's 'demolition job' there too.
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Post by Bentley on Nov 12, 2022 18:59:24 GMT
What races are ‘ set to dominate in the future ‘? 😁 According to Dan Dare 's stats it looks like Asians are going to take the win. I'm curious as to how that will play out. Will they live harmony once they do take over, or will the UK have to go the way of the motherland and be partitioned into Hindu and Muslim territories at that point? What will happen to minorities in this new dynamic. Will the new masters of these shores be benevolent towards other groups? Fascinating stuff. I predict that they will wear Bowler hats and say ‘ Tally ho!’ Whenever prompted. The white people will be faithful servants and often declare ‘ well that’s a rum do and no mistake ‘. Black people will claim that Indians are really white people in disguise. All non assimilated Eastern Europeans will own white vans .
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 12, 2022 19:05:39 GMT
Seems like an opportune moment to give my BBC Evening News for 14th October 2066 another outing. It was quite well-received in other venues so let's run it up the flagpole here and see who salutes.
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As-salaam alaykum, you are watching BBC London. Here is the nine o’clock news for Thursday, the 14th of October, 2066.
The Prime Minister Latyusha Rajagopalachari-Neuberg has declared today a National Holiday in commemoration of the birth of the eighty-millionth Briton earlier today at the al-Anwar Hussein Memorial Hospital in London [formerly St Bartholomew’s ed.].
Our Home Affairs correspondent Duwayne McDonald-Nkrumah reports…
“In the early hours of this morning, as the muezzin called the capitals’ faithful to dawn prayers from minar of the Masjid National behind me here [formerly Big Ben ed.] the era of white native numerical supremacy in the British Isles drew to a close, probably for ever. Just as exactly a thousand years ago today Anglo-Saxon hegemony was eclipsed, so today’s momentous event signals the beginning of the end of the Anglo-Norman. Not as a consequence of a bloody military invasion, but in the British way, democratically and with the willing acquiescence of the majority population.
When the first of NHS IVF-patient Mrs Sophie Olumbeyo-N’dingadinga’s quintuplets entered the world in the grey pre-dawn hours one chapter of history closed and a new one opened. Back to you, Latyusha”
Thank you, Duwayne.
In other news, a spokesperson for the Ministry of Love has reported that raids late yesterday evening in the native cantonments of Richmond upon Thames and Bromley have resulted in furher arrests in connection with the nativist atrocities at last week Diwali festivities. Following an intelligence-led investigation a public house in the Notting Hill area was searched and investigators uncovered a large cache of arms and bomb-making equipment, mostly of western European origin. As a precaution all fifty public houses in London’s five remaining native cantonments have been ordered closed until further notice. Minilove also confirmed that the suspected ringleader, Alfred-Wulfric Rees-Mogg, son of the last native prime minister who fled to Germany in 2049, has been flown to Cairo for ‘enhanced’ interrogation.
Now to sport and weather…
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Post by Steve on Nov 12, 2022 19:05:56 GMT
Not 'Caucasians' apparently if Brother Colmops is to be taken seriously. But back to the topic, or more correctly, Steve's braggadocio about 'taking apart' David Coleman's paper Projections of the Ethnic Minority populations of the United Kingdom 2006- 2056 and, in particular his claim that 'both (both what?) make the racist assumption that fertility rates of second and third generations will be the same as first generation immigrants'. In fact Coleman does nothing of the sort. If anyone other than Steve himself told such porkies he'd be jumping up and down denouncing them as 'a liar'. But I'll be charitable and just say instead he's misguided. This is actually what Coleman had to say on the topic of differential ethnic fertility in his actual paper as opposed to what Steve imagined he'd said. Sorry it's a long but it's probably the only way to shut him up. And here is the aforesaid Table 3, which as anyone can see gives the lie to Steve's ludicrous claim that "Coleman assumed that fertility levels were determined by ethnicity and not circumstance so his 2010 paper predicting 2066 (which is hardly your pretence of 'soon') disregarded (deliberately?) that second and third generation descendants of immigrants increasingly match the indigenous fertility rates." As can be seen Coleman's projection assumes that ethnic tfr, even that of the most fecund groups, will over the long-term fall to replacement level, or below. Indeed some of them already had even by 2010, some even lower than the native population, which fell below replacement level in the early 70s. But then differential fertility and birth rates were never the central plank of Coleman's argument, immigration filled that role instead. Perhaps we'll take that up next and deconstruct Steve's 'demolition job' there too. Please provide a link to his report so I can go through my 2014 analysis of it
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