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Post by see2 on Sept 11, 2023 9:58:20 GMT
At least it represents a peoples choice not a few arrogant politicos choice. They appear to have a very low opinion of other people, which says a lot about them personally. No, they understand that representative democracy leaves the people with the available resources to help them best understand political problems, to make the decisions, much better than leaving it to the vagaries of public opinion or the outright liars who have the means to influence others to make their decisions. |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 11, 2023 10:40:06 GMT
What you advocate leaves a massive gap between what the politicians want and what the people paying for it want.
Our system is not proportional and due to the frequent lack of direct votes, it can hardly be described as democracy at all.
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 11, 2023 10:57:20 GMT
So Switzerland is the shithole of Europe? Or is it that you know that direct democracy would not support the policies you support - so it must be bad?. Well Switzerland did make its wealth on the back of converting Nazi stolen gold into currency, which has been estimated by some to have lengthened WWII by up to two years. Switzerland has a population of less than 9 million people, so perhaps referendum can work there. Our last referendum was full of dishonesty, exaggerations and dreamers, with those with the loudest voices and the smallest minds, mostly apparently right-wingers like Farage, and those who believed the nonsense about 'bent bananas', won the day. Hardly a recommendation for 'direct democracy' in this country.There was no more or no less dishonesty in the referendum campaign than there is in any political election. Business as usual. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2023 13:05:43 GMT
If we are looking for a group to disqualify from voting, I would start with convicted prisoners, but we give them the vote. They must be a substantial anti-authoritarian group, generalising, of course. That is news to me. I didnt think prisoners inside prison could vote in this country. Has this changed? They would never in any case be a major source of any problem with democracy simply because they make up such a small percentage of the total electorate. |
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Post by Vinny on Sept 11, 2023 13:18:05 GMT
If we are looking for a group to disqualify from voting, I would start with convicted prisoners, but we give them the vote. They must be a substantial anti-authoritarian group, generalising, of course. That is news to me. I didnt think prisoners inside prison could vote in this country. Has this changed? Yes commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7461/ |
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Post by Pacifico on Sept 11, 2023 16:26:55 GMT
That is actually an interesting case with relevance to other issues.
The European Court of Human Rights made a judgement which the UK Government chose not to comply with - and without any means of sanction the ECHR could do nothing against HMG and was reliant on the UK coming up with a compromise that we could live with.
This shows that you don't actually need to leave the ECHR to be able to deport illegal migrants, if the Court rules against it we could just ignore the judgement. And it is not just the UK doing this - countries throughout Europe are ignoring ECHR judgements and life goes on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2023 19:06:56 GMT
Thanks. Apologies, I was wrong about that. |
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Post by piglet on Sept 18, 2023 13:40:28 GMT
Great post srb, without looking like a clever wotsit ive thought that democracy has serious flaws for a long time, and it doesnt mean a dictatorship is an answer either. What happens now is that when things get really bad Britain becomes a dictatorship, you cant rule by consensus as in ww2. Things are about tightening then letting go appropriately.
As you mention things are not that simple anymore. Being democratic means allowing the enemies of democracy to flourish, if you, for instance, stop the Russians, communists, or fundamental islamists having their say, you can be accused of not being democratic.
The last time i was here, someone, i cant remember their monicker was justifying the murder of innocent people, unnaceptable in my mind, and i was accused of banning free speech. So where do you draw the line, there isnt one. Therefore, your damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Our enemies are camoflaged. I see the democrats in America, and its wokery as the enemy, but it now runs society, the Tories and Labour are part of the degeneration of England. The way we find our way is by trial and error, only fools continue on things that are plainly wrong, things change when the wrong thing becomes obvious.
Which doesnt say much about our politicians who keep telling us they know how to run things. The trick is too relax, let it happen whatever it is, you cant change it. Its about being blind, if you keep bumping into things you try a different way, no politician will tell you that.
There is no solution save for trial and error, and learning from mistakes. Take heart, we dont live in caves anymore, enjoy the ride. What may help is not having completely random head cases in charge, in studies of mental health not mental ill health, or whichever way you look at it.
politicians they are the LEAST HEALTHY, mentally, or from the other side, have the most MENTAL ILL HEALTH. That needs to change, where power is at stake, psychopaths narcissists congregate, its their fuel. Like you say, Boris FFS, Theresa May, openly selling this country down the river, the list is endless.
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