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Post by dappy on Sept 4, 2023 10:53:58 GMT
"Populism" is a somewhat ill-defined term, Orac but hardly the point here. As I said not interested in terminology. An answer on the points of sujbstance?
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Post by Orac on Sept 4, 2023 10:58:33 GMT
"Populism" is a somewhat ill-defined term, Orac but hardly the point here. As I said not interested in terminology. An answer on the points of sujbstance? If you remove the contended terminology (ie the word populist), what is your substantial point? Does this 'point' boil down to you not agreeing with a policy? and..Isn't the fact you disagree what we would all expect given your political position? |
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Post by dappy on Sept 4, 2023 11:09:26 GMT
Not in the least Orac.
My question was "What makes you think that that would be popular with say 45% of the electorate and who do you think could lead the party and present such an agenda?".
my own political position is irrelevant to the question asked.
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Post by Bentley on Sept 4, 2023 13:56:08 GMT
If the Tories lose the next election badly then it doesn’t matter one jot who leads the party . Au contraire, if the Tories lose the next election there will be a period of infighting before they finally accept the truth which is - there isn't room for two centrist parties, the Tories must move back to the centre right and regain the trust of Conservative voters. They won’t . Conservative voters are dying out . Centre right politics will be labelled extreme right wing and there will only be rhetoric . Neither Labour or the Tories have depth and direction . |
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Post by Orac on Sept 4, 2023 14:07:38 GMT
UK political culture itself is being decommissioned. You will live under a one party bureaucratic state (with two notional 'parties') and you will be happy.
The party at the end of history.
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 4, 2023 14:18:12 GMT
Au contraire, if the Tories lose the next election there will be a period of infighting before they finally accept the truth which is - there isn't room for two centrist parties, the Tories must move back to the centre right and regain the trust of Conservative voters. They won’t . Conservative voters are dying out . Centre right politics will be labelled extreme right wing and there will only be rhetoric . Neither Labour or the Tories have depth and direction . I think you're wrong, I think there's going to be a huge backlash against all this ESG, net zero, gender nonsense and woke lefty bullshit. Politicians know we are slow to anger, but as the imposition of Ulez has shown, people will get angry. There is certainly growing pressure on Sunak from his back benchers to bin woke and all this net zero nonsense. As the next election draws closer we will see both Labour and the Tories go cool on trendy left wing bullshit because Starmer and Sunak both know damned well that it's not popular with the majority of voters. Course, could be wrong.  |
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Post by dappy on Sept 4, 2023 14:23:57 GMT
I hate to push but you seem to be avoiding a simple question Red.
"What makes you think that that (the "UKIP/Populist/Truss whatever you want to call it" agenda) would be popular with say 45% of the electorate and who do you think could lead the party and present such an agenda?".
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Post by Red Rackham on Sept 4, 2023 14:26:02 GMT
UK political culture itself is being decommissioned. You will live under a one party bureaucratic state (with two notional 'parties') and you will be happy. The party at the end of history. I don't think we're quite ready for that yet. Elections may frighten politicians but they will continue to be a feature of UK politics, and lets not forget we have more than two choices. If Reform polled 13% of the vote as UKIP did it would absolutely terrify the established parties. |
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Post by dappy on Sept 4, 2023 14:34:14 GMT
Trouble is Red, in all the byelections held in the last 12 months, Reform struggles to get above 3.5% and has frankly been irrelevant. When Truss was PM following broadly the Reform policy agenda, support for the Tories fell off a cliff. It surely must be a strong possibility that the total number of seats won by Reform/UKIP/Reclaim and the others at the next election will be zero. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary, it seems that the public in general has no appetite for the policies you wish to see.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2023 15:03:44 GMT
Sooty.
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Post by andrewbrown on Sept 4, 2023 15:10:08 GMT
UK political culture itself is being decommissioned. You will live under a one party bureaucratic state (with two notional 'parties') and you will be happy. The party at the end of history. I don't think we're quite ready for that yet. Elections may frighten politicians but they will continue to be a feature of UK politics, and lets not forget we have more than two choices. If Reform polled 13% of the vote as UKIP did it would absolutely terrify the established parties. Your posts often give the impression that you believe that the majority of the country agree with your views. I'm not entirely sure that's true. If that was true, then the Tory lost support would be going to Reform / Ukip etc, but it's clearly going to LibDems and Labour. You may be crying out for a more right wing party, but there's little evidence that the country is. |
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Post by Bentley on Sept 4, 2023 15:34:14 GMT
They won’t . Conservative voters are dying out . Centre right politics will be labelled extreme right wing and there will only be rhetoric . Neither Labour or the Tories have depth and direction . I think you're wrong, I think there's going to be a huge backlash against all this ESG, net zero, gender nonsense and woke lefty bullshit. Politicians know we are slow to anger, but as the imposition of Ulez has shown, people will get angry. There is certainly growing pressure on Sunak from his back benchers to bin woke and all this net zero nonsense. As the next election draws closer we will see both Labour and the Tories go cool on trendy left wing bullshit because Starmer and Sunak both know damned well that it's not popular with the majority of voters. Course, could be wrong. I hope you are right but I think you are wrong . 😉 |
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Post by Orac on Sept 4, 2023 15:35:57 GMT
I don't think we're quite ready for that yet. Elections may frighten politicians but they will continue to be a feature of UK politics, and lets not forget we have more than two choices. If Reform polled 13% of the vote as UKIP did it would absolutely terrify the established parties. Your posts often give the impression that you believe that the majority of the country agree with your views. The the extent that his views importantly clash with yours, he is likely correct. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Sept 4, 2023 15:45:35 GMT
Your posts often give the impression that you believe that the majority of the country agree with your views. The the extent that his views importantly clash with yours, he is likely correct. What evidence are you using for this? |
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Post by Orac on Sept 4, 2023 15:55:50 GMT
The last general election.
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