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Post by Vinny on Nov 3, 2022 17:24:35 GMT
Incorrect analysis. 17.41m voted leave. 16.1m voted remain, it was a UK vote not an electoral college vote. Not true. The uk and gibraltar voted. Gibraltar not being part of the uk. Northern ireland , which is part of the uk , remained.
Hence the absurdity of your post.
We can see why the uk is a failing state after three hundred years , with most of one country leaving , and many others in the other nations wanting out. This is because certain people in a certain country keep trying to dictate to others , whatever the subject ,what they can and cannot do.
It will be your ending.
Gibraltar is legally a British Overseas Territory. The UK is not a failing state it's a success. The thing in recent decades that was a mistake, was creating the Scottish and Welsh devolved authorities. But that was Labour. Devolution should be at county council level with fiscal autonomy for county councils. Get rid of this flag waving racism. |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 17:26:29 GMT
If Scotland, Wales and NI name their national football teams in their own language ( even though it’s spoken by a minority) it would give our national football team an English identity. It’s about time that England is seen as an identity in itself . Vinny seems to be anti english and pro british. Im extremely supportive of england and its people and their identity.
Its the british nationalists , wether of the emily thornberry types and their hatred of english white van man , or the right wingers like vinny who appear to be the problem for englands identity.
Start of with your own national anthem instead of the brit nat dirge , and wave the st georges cross instead of the butchers apron.
Its also about time england had its own parliament , something that was predictable but unforgiveable when blair and labour enacted devolution.
Well I’m not going to ignore or reject a British identity. The Scots , Welsh and NI can alternate between British and their own identity when it suits them . I think we should be able to do the same . I prefer’ land of hope and glory ‘anytime over ‘God save the king ‘. I suspect that any attempt by England to acquire a national identity to compare with the other countries would be met with accusations of ‘ little Englanders ‘ by the usual suspects . |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 3, 2022 17:30:42 GMT
I'm not English, I'm a mongrel.
A mix of English and Scottish.
British basically.
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 17:35:44 GMT
Not true. The uk and gibraltar voted. Gibraltar not being part of the uk. Northern ireland , which is part of the uk , remained.
Hence the absurdity of your post.
We can see why the uk is a failing state after three hundred years , with most of one country leaving , and many others in the other nations wanting out. This is because certain people in a certain country keep trying to dictate to others , whatever the subject ,what they can and cannot do.
It will be your ending.
Gibraltar is legally a British Overseas Territory. ...but not part of the uk . you said it was a uk vote .
Thats debatable , considering how politically unstable it is , and the fact you have already lost a large part of it when ireland left.
The scottish people voted for it in 1979 and by an even bigger margin in 1997. You dont like democracy when it goes against you do you vinny like some of your countrymen.
I think we should turn westminster into a history museum and remove all control to the adult parliament at brussells.
Im a pro european , and want to work hand in hand with my fellow european.
You are the nasty british isolationst petty nationalist , who wants to sever scotland from our friends in europe.
Get rid of your nasty british nationalism and become an internationalist pro european.
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 17:37:24 GMT
I'm not English, I'm a mongrel. A mix of English and Scottish. British basically. I couldnt really care basically. Scottishness is a mindset.
I reject britishness.
Im a european , with irish scottish and the blood of our european forefathers in my veins.
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 17:39:19 GMT
My Granddad was a Scot . If I could swap him for an Irish Grandad , I would tbh.
Anyway one thing I have noticed is that when one suggests that England would be well rid of Scotland and if there was an English referendum to break away from Scotland the leavers would win …then it is usually met with the claim that England without Scotland would be far worse off.
This has lead me to suspect that many Scots who want to leave the union also want England to want them to stay
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 17:43:05 GMT
Vinny seems to be anti english and pro british. Im extremely supportive of england and its people and their identity.
Its the british nationalists , wether of the emily thornberry types and their hatred of english white van man , or the right wingers like vinny who appear to be the problem for englands identity.
Start of with your own national anthem instead of the brit nat dirge , and wave the st georges cross instead of the butchers apron.
Its also about time england had its own parliament , something that was predictable but unforgiveable when blair and labour enacted devolution.
Well I’m not going to ignore or reject a British identity. you dont have to , just dont project it on to others who dont share it.
Not quite true. I cant speak for the welsh , but us scots are by a majority scottish in terms of our national identity.
The majority of irish left your uk , and those that remained , unionism is barely a third of the political make up of the demographic.
good choice.
Most scots hate GSTQ. Generally its sung at rangers fitba games and booed in most other stadiums and by our national temas supporters.
Not by me, but i take your point. English nationalism would end britishness which is why the political elite and people like vinny wont support it.
England should be proud of it people and nation and their history.
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 17:45:41 GMT
My Granddad was a Scot . If I could swap him for an Irish Grandad , I would tbh. Anyway one thing I have noticed is that when one suggests that England would be well rid of Scotland and if there was an English referendum to break away from Scotland the leavers would win …then it is usually met with the claim that England without Scotland would be far worse off. This has lead me to suspect that many Scots who want to leave the union also want England to want them to stay I cant speak for anyone else , but surely its about respecting each other and our political choices rather than trying to bludgeon your opinion through by anti democratic means or poor quality attempts at sophistry?
England and scotland could easily survive independent of each other as they have for centuries before the union. Indeed both spent more time apart than they have in union.
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 17:50:25 GMT
Well I’m not going to ignore or reject a British identity. you dont have to , just dont project it on to others who dont share it.
Not quite true. I cant speak for the welsh , but us scots are by a majority scottish in terms of our national identity.
The majority of irish left your uk , and those that remained , unionism is barely a third of the political make up of the demographic.
good choice.
Most scots hate GSTQ. Generally its sung at rangers fitba games and booed in most other stadiums and by our national temas supporters.
Not by me, but i take your point. English nationalism would end britishness which is why the political elite and people like vinny wont support it.
England should be proud of it people and nation and their history.
British identity is objective . You can’t deny it tbh. I don’t have to project British identity at you ..you have to deny it. You can be Scottish when you feel like and British if you feel like it. The English identity has been eroded over time . English identity would refute the lie that the English are the oppressers of the rest of the UK. |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 3, 2022 17:51:08 GMT
British is what we are it's where we're from, Scotland is just lines on a map, a made up invention.
Great Britain is our island. We're British.
We're not from the continent, we're islanders.
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 18:03:50 GMT
you dont have to , just dont project it on to others who dont share it.
Not quite true. I cant speak for the welsh , but us scots are by a majority scottish in terms of our national identity.
The majority of irish left your uk , and those that remained , unionism is barely a third of the political make up of the demographic.
good choice.
Most scots hate GSTQ. Generally its sung at rangers fitba games and booed in most other stadiums and by our national temas supporters.
Not by me, but i take your point. English nationalism would end britishness which is why the political elite and people like vinny wont support it.
England should be proud of it people and nation and their history.
British identity is objective . You can’t deny it tbh. I don’t have to project British identity at you ..you have to deny it. You can be Scottish when you feel like and British if you feel like it.. Im not british in terms of nat ID , im scottish. Geographically im european and british. Much the same as a norwegian is scandiancavian norwegian and european.
i have two certificates , birth and marriage ,which categorically tell me im scottish .They dont mention british.
I have a passport ( still the red eu one) whci htells me im a british citizen ( thee is no country called britian) and i share that ppassport with many overseas people who have never lived on these islands.
So the only thing british that is projected at me is a travel document , and even then , its debateble that a pieve of paper determines nationality , which to me is a mindset.
Fully agree i think it unfair and you should claim it back.
I believe the westminster elite are the oppressors , and some in each of our countires support them .
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 18:05:15 GMT
British is what we are it's where we're from, Scotland is just lines on a map, a made up invention. Great Britain is our island. We're British. We're not from the continent, we're islanders. Show me on any world map please where this mythical country Britain?/Great Britian is vinny? Over to you?
A quick copy and paste should suffice. If you cant , we know you are making things up and believing in a fantasy.
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 18:06:03 GMT
My Granddad was a Scot . If I could swap him for an Irish Grandad , I would tbh. Anyway one thing I have noticed is that when one suggests that England would be well rid of Scotland and if there was an English referendum to break away from Scotland the leavers would win …then it is usually met with the claim that England without Scotland would be far worse off. This has lead me to suspect that many Scots who want to leave the union also want England to want them to stay I cant speak for anyone else , but surely its about respecting each other and our political choices rather than trying to bludgeon your opinion through by anti democratic means or poor quality attempts at sophistry?
England and scotland could easily survive independent of each other as they have for centuries before the union. Indeed both spent more time apart than they have in union.
The Scots and the English hated each other before the union. In most of wars and tribulations England prevailed . Perhaps that’s why the SNP are so desperate to join the EU . After all France would usually interfere on the side of Scotland when things got sticky with England . |
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Post by Vinny on Nov 3, 2022 18:08:20 GMT
 Scotland, like England and Wales is just an invention. A way of carving up our shared island. There are lots of other ways. |
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Post by thomas on Nov 3, 2022 18:08:32 GMT
I cant speak for anyone else , but surely its about respecting each other and our political choices rather than trying to bludgeon your opinion through by anti democratic means or poor quality attempts at sophistry?
England and scotland could easily survive independent of each other as they have for centuries before the union. Indeed both spent more time apart than they have in union.
The Scots and the English hated each other before the union. In most of wars and tribulations England prevailed . Not true. Scotland is the only country in these islands that england spectacularly failed to military conquer and retain through right of conquest historically.
That failure more than anyhting , unlike with wales and ireland , was why england had to beg cajole and bribe scotland into the 1707 union.
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