|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 27, 2022 9:40:28 GMT
If there hasn't been a true Conservative government since Thatcher then you could equally say there hasn't been a true Labour government since Callaghan. The only time there was a Labour govt at all they changed their name to New Labour and adopted many of Thatcher's economic policies. Perhaps that demonstrates the British public don't vote for the extremes of politics left or right anymore and are becoming more and more centrist. I welcome this. when you have two parties ( the only two who are likely to form government at westmisnter) with a fag papers width in difference of policy between them surely this is worrying for any democracy.
This isnt a cosy indictment of a healthy society with so called centrist views monte.
Look at blairs 2001 general election victory for exmaple , where the tories were in a mess , and labour had effectively become small c tories to see what i mean. We had the lowest election turn out in history ,the public were that switched off in disgust from politics.
Contrast that to the brexit vote and scot indy vote , where people were energised with strength and feeling for what they believed in.
Mark my words , this isnt a healthy state for any countries politics , and could lead to break down in society.
We dont need two tory parties dressed up as pragmatic centralism.
|
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Nov 27, 2022 9:44:15 GMT
If there hasn't been a true Conservative government since Thatcher then you could equally say there hasn't been a true Labour government since Callaghan. The only time there was a Labour govt at all they changed their name to New Labour and adopted many of Thatcher's economic policies. Perhaps that demonstrates the British public don't vote for the extremes of politics left or right anymore and are becoming more and more centrist. I welcome this. when you have two parties ( the only two who are likely to form government at westmisnter) with a fag papers width in difference of policy between them surely this is worrying for any democracy.
This isnt a cosy indictment of a healthy society with so called centrist views monte.
Look at blairs 2001 general election victory for exmaple , where the tories were in a mess , and labour had effectively become small c tories to see what i mean. We had the lowest election turn out in history ,the public were that switched off in disgust from politics.
Contrast that to the brexit vote and scot indy vote , where people were energised with strength and feeling for what they believed in.
Mark my words , this isnt a healthy state for any countries politics , and could lead to break down in society.
We dont need two tory parties dressed up as pragmatic centralism.
No, we need real pragmatic centrism but if we can't have that I'll accept a move away from the extremes as the best of a bad lot. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 27, 2022 9:51:09 GMT
when you have two parties ( the only two who are likely to form government at westmisnter) with a fag papers width in difference of policy between them surely this is worrying for any democracy.
This isnt a cosy indictment of a healthy society with so called centrist views monte.
Look at blairs 2001 general election victory for exmaple , where the tories were in a mess , and labour had effectively become small c tories to see what i mean. We had the lowest election turn out in history ,the public were that switched off in disgust from politics.
Contrast that to the brexit vote and scot indy vote , where people were energised with strength and feeling for what they believed in.
Mark my words , this isnt a healthy state for any countries politics , and could lead to break down in society.
We dont need two tory parties dressed up as pragmatic centralism.
No, we need real pragmatic centrism but if we can't have that I'll accept a move away from the extremes as the best of a bad lot. if politics carry on as it is , by herding people down a dead political end to vote red or blue tory dressed up as the cosy centre , dismissing much of the views of wider society in the process , you are merely hastening , not solving , the problems of society and its breakdown.
We dont need two tory parties. How can it be healthy when a party as inept as labour , and keir starmer , simply become government not becasue they are popular and have great policy , but because they are merely the second half of a two horse race who will take up the reigns of power in an electoral stitch up.?
The problem of the uk currently is much wider and deeper than the bogeyman of political extremism.
Do you honestly think keir starmer is the solution to those problems?
|
|
|
|
Post by The Squeezed Middle on Nov 27, 2022 9:55:33 GMT
Indeed, there is no problem to which the answer is Keir Starmer.
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Nov 27, 2022 10:15:08 GMT
When you voted Labour did you want them to win? In my constituency or the general election? When you go to a football match do you want the side you support to win? As a floating supporter, I'm not really sure I support a team. I quite clearly said I'm more naturally a LibDem. If they were the main opposition to the Tories here, I would vote for them, and indeed did in 2010. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Nov 27, 2022 10:40:35 GMT
I think that you need to understand what "tactical vote" is and then re-think your use of the word "support" here. Either that or you are being obtuse. When you voted Labour did you want them to win? When you go to a football match do you want the side you support to win? Your posts repeatedly show a fogginess of mind, as if you are hiding something, like your true political feeling. That along with an apparent desire to insinuate differently that which others are telling you. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Nov 27, 2022 10:44:05 GMT
No, we need real pragmatic centrism but if we can't have that I'll accept a move away from the extremes as the best of a bad lot. if politics carry on as it is , by herding people down a dead political end to vote red or blue tory dressed up as the cosy centre , dismissing much of the views of wider society in the process , you are merely hastening , not solving , the problems of society and its breakdown.
We dont need two tory parties. How can it be healthy when a party as inept as labour , and keir starmer , simply become government not becasue they are popular and have great policy , but because they are merely the second half of a two horse race who will take up the reigns of power in an electoral stitch up.?
The problem of the uk currently is much wider and deeper than the bogeyman of political extremism.
Do you honestly think keir starmer is the solution to those problems?
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion even if it does show more bias than commonsense. |
|
|
|
Post by see2 on Nov 27, 2022 10:45:12 GMT
Indeed, there is no problem to which the answer is Keir Starmer. In your ill-informed overly biased opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Nov 27, 2022 10:48:48 GMT
No, we need real pragmatic centrism but if we can't have that I'll accept a move away from the extremes as the best of a bad lot. if politics carry on as it is , by herding people down a dead political end to vote red or blue tory dressed up as the cosy centre , dismissing much of the views of wider society in the process , you are merely hastening , not solving , the problems of society and its breakdown.
We dont need two tory parties. How can it be healthy when a party as inept as labour , and keir starmer , simply become government not becasue they are popular and have great policy , but because they are merely the second half of a two horse race who will take up the reigns of power in an electoral stitch up.?
The problem of the uk currently is much wider and deeper than the bogeyman of political extremism.
Do you honestly think keir starmer is the solution to those problems?
Personally I think it is people like (but not necessarily her) Caroline Lucas who hold many of the solutions to our real problems but that's because I'm an Ecomentalist. Would Starmer be any better than the current shower? Probably not but he couldn't be any worse. |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 27, 2022 11:28:29 GMT
When you voted Labour did you want them to win? When you go to a football match do you want the side you support to win? Your posts repeatedly show a fogginess of mind, as if you are hiding something, like your true political feeling. That along with an apparent desire to insinuate differently that which others are telling you.  |
|
|
|
Post by Pacifico on Nov 27, 2022 11:31:10 GMT
if politics carry on as it is , by herding people down a dead political end to vote red or blue tory dressed up as the cosy centre , dismissing much of the views of wider society in the process , you are merely hastening , not solving , the problems of society and its breakdown.
We dont need two tory parties. How can it be healthy when a party as inept as labour , and keir starmer , simply become government not becasue they are popular and have great policy , but because they are merely the second half of a two horse race who will take up the reigns of power in an electoral stitch up.?
The problem of the uk currently is much wider and deeper than the bogeyman of political extremism.
Do you honestly think keir starmer is the solution to those problems?
Personally I think it is people like (but not necessarily her) Caroline Lucas who hold many of the solutions to our real problems but that's because I'm an Ecomentalist. Would Starmer be any better than the current shower? Probably not but he couldn't be any worse. Lucas is good because she actually believes in policy - Starmer is like Sunak, they only believe in getting elected. Which is why we are now on our 25th year of New Labour mush.. |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 27, 2022 12:13:23 GMT
if politics carry on as it is , by herding people down a dead political end to vote red or blue tory dressed up as the cosy centre , dismissing much of the views of wider society in the process , you are merely hastening , not solving , the problems of society and its breakdown.
We dont need two tory parties. How can it be healthy when a party as inept as labour , and keir starmer , simply become government not becasue they are popular and have great policy , but because they are merely the second half of a two horse race who will take up the reigns of power in an electoral stitch up.?
The problem of the uk currently is much wider and deeper than the bogeyman of political extremism.
Do you honestly think keir starmer is the solution to those problems?
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion even if it does show more bias than commonsense. of course im biased. So are you. Those who moan about bias while suggesting they arent , are the problem in any debate.
The proof of what im saying though is in the pudding.
Since 1997 , we have had what i would arguably say is the so called pragmatic centre governing the uk , with the possible exception of the johnson post 2019 government. In that time , society has got worse , the uk problems increased .
You cant just sit and bleat about the tories.
Tony blair , wether it was gas storage , IRA men on the run , increasing gap between the have and have nots , mass immigration , pfi scandals etc etc left ticking time bombs for cameron may johnson and now sunak to deal with.
Nigel farage must thank his lucky stars for tony blair and new labour and the disaster of mass uncontrolled immigration. Labour ignored the english electorate on the subject and post 2004 flooded the uk with uncontrolled immigration , which the tories have carried on with.
The english were told to shut up and stop being racist with their legitimate concerns. That then laid the ground for brexit and the increasing sentiment in euroscepticism. Labour told us they knew best , and as ever , they left society in a mess.
Common sense tells me doing the same thing over and over ( electing red and blue tories) and expecting a different result is a sign of madness.
When starmer and his cronies fall into government , much to the fanfare of middle class liberals , and set the uk on fire as labour always do , and categorically fail to adress the uk structural problems with their out of date phony blairite politics , most of us wont take any pleasure in telling mooncalfs like yourself we told you so.
|
|
|
|
Post by Montegriffo on Nov 27, 2022 12:14:53 GMT
Personally I think it is people like (but not necessarily her) Caroline Lucas who hold many of the solutions to our real problems but that's because I'm an Ecomentalist. Would Starmer be any better than the current shower? Probably not but he couldn't be any worse. Lucas is good because she actually believes in policy - Starmer is like Sunak, they only believe in getting elected. Which is why we are now on our 25th year of New Labour mush.. I agree. Starmer changes colour like the Tories change leaders. Where are the Lib' Dems while the two main parties are so useless? |
|
|
|
Post by thomas on Nov 27, 2022 12:51:06 GMT
Lucas is good because she actually believes in policy - Starmer is like Sunak, they only believe in getting elected. Which is why we are now on our 25th year of New Labour mush.. I agree. Starmer changes colour like the Tories change leaders. Keir starmer is the weather vane of uk politics.
trying to please everyone to gain power by jumping on every bandwagon going is doomed to failure in the sense at one point the piper will have to be paid , and starmer wont have the money to do so.
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewbrown on Nov 27, 2022 13:04:47 GMT
When you voted Labour did you want them to win? When you go to a football match do you want the side you support to win? Your posts repeatedly show a fogginess of mind, as if you are hiding something, like your true political feeling. That along with an apparent desire to insinuate differently that which others are telling you. Interesting. I'll translate that as you feel unable to put me in a particular box. On that you are correct, hence my original objection to being labelled a Labour supporter. It was just the lazy 2 dimensional thinking of people on this board. I am somewhat surprised that it was Pacifico who jumped to the conclusion as I often have more respect for his posts than that. |
|
