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Post by Handyman on Nov 3, 2022 8:09:14 GMT
I have heard this argument before, Possibly from someone old enough to remember the last time we tried it and ended up with a massive problem of the rich fleeing to offshore tax havens.. Yes, I saw it happen also investors just legged it Global Companies went elsewhere, even UK companies registered their companies in other countries to reduce their tax bill, reduced the numbers of employees |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 3, 2022 8:16:01 GMT
That's a rather curious post. You've spent the last few months declaring that polls are pointless as the GE is (probably) 2 years away. You then use a poll showing a clear Labour lead that you interpret as "Starmer is toast". Bit bizarre. Unless an election is imminent polls are rather pointless, aren't they? In two years time will anyone be looking back to the polls from two years ago? I wouldn't have thought so. However, I do think it's worth mentioning that even though Sunak has been PM for five minutes, Starmers lead in the polls is already slipping. This must be annoying for you.  I agree there probably won't be a GE for 2 years. I don't think that makes polls pointless, they are just a snapshot as we are now. I'm not surprised that the Tories have recovered a little. Even as a non-aligned voter, I'm much more confident in Sunak than Truss. I'm more interested in your conclusion from this poll that Starmer is toast? 🤔 |
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Post by Bentley on Nov 3, 2022 10:36:31 GMT
The bedroom tax had a function outside of taxing people for the amount of bedrooms they had in their council houses iirc. In principle , is it right that people who have more bedrooms that they need ( in council houses) and block families that need the extra bedrooms? Yes, that was the thinking. The problem in the operation though was that we have a shortage of 2 bed and (particularly) 1 bed properties in council / housing association stock for these people to move to, so it punished people essentially for government decisions years back to dwindle the stock. If the tax (actually, it isn't a tax, it's a reduction in housing benefit) was applied to those who had rejected this downsizing, that would be fair, to apply it to those who are unable to through no fault of their own does seem particularly unfair. If that’s the case then it was extremely unfair and unworkable. |
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Post by totheleft3 on Nov 3, 2022 11:22:03 GMT
We had the discussion about the rich leaving the country if there taxed more before .
Despite the right wingers claim this isn't true .
When Brown charged the rich 50p in the pound the majority of them stayed.
Has for tax havens there illegal and can be closed down.
Another way off stopping the rich fleeing is by introducing a higj tax exit like America does
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Post by dappy on Nov 14, 2022 11:56:00 GMT
The Sunak honeymoon period seems to have stalled and Labour still has a massive led in the polls - far higher than when Truss took over. twitter.com/BritainElectsFeels like the electorate has not forgiven the Tories for Truss and the damage to all of us she caused. The election is probably almost two years off and its just polls etc etc, but if that lead is sustained, the projection is over 500 Labour MPs and just 50 Tory. Personally I think the gap will close despite the ongoing global and Truss caused UK specific issues but I see most likely outcome (and probably IMHO best) is a Labour lead minority government and it would be hard to see how the Tories could actually retain power from here. |
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Post by Toreador on Nov 14, 2022 12:17:25 GMT
The Sunak honeymoon period seems to have stalled and Labour still has a massive led in the polls - far higher than when Truss took over. twitter.com/BritainElectsFeels like the electorate has not forgiven the Tories for Truss and the damage to all of us she caused. The election is probably almost two years off and its just polls etc etc, but if that lead is sustained, the projection is over 500 Labour MPs and just 50 Tory. Personally I think the gap will close despite the ongoing global and Truss caused UK specific issues but I see most likely outcome (and probably IMHO best) is a Labour lead minority government and it would be hard to see how the Tories could actually retain power from here. And Dappy will be delighted that one useless government will be replaced by another useless government. My recollection is that Labour has twice called a new election because they had too thin a majority. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 14, 2022 12:32:35 GMT
The Sunak honeymoon period seems to have stalled and Labour still has a massive led in the polls - far higher than when Truss took over. twitter.com/BritainElectsFeels like the electorate has not forgiven the Tories for Truss and the damage to all of us she caused. The election is probably almost two years off and its just polls etc etc, but if that lead is sustained, the projection is over 500 Labour MPs and just 50 Tory. Personally I think the gap will close despite the ongoing global and Truss caused UK specific issues but I see most likely outcome (and probably IMHO best) is a Labour lead minority government and it would be hard to see how the Tories could actually retain power from here. And Dappy will be delighted that one useless government will be replaced by another useless government. My recollection is that Labour has twice called a new election because they had too thin a majority. Well the useless UK electorate kept the useless Margaret Thatcher in office for 11 years. The uselessness led to the Conservative party having to get rid of her because the electorate were too brainwashed to be able to do the job. |
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Post by see2 on Nov 14, 2022 12:38:25 GMT
Must be awful for Labour to only have a 23 point lead ...... Inevitable that some of the "god truss is awful" extreme poll effect unravels - I would be amazed if it stays much above 10%. Feels to me the Tories will be disappointed that the Sunak bounce hasn't been more pronounced. Maybe it will be over time. Sunak has been PM for five minutes, and the Labour lead is dwindling by the day. The election isn't for two years, lol. Starmer is toast. It could hardly help but improve following Truss' nonsense. |
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Post by andrewbrown on Nov 14, 2022 12:41:00 GMT
Sunak has been PM for five minutes, and the Labour lead is dwindling by the day. The election isn't for two years, lol. Starmer is toast. It could hardly help but improve following Truss' nonsense. True, but the rot started under Johnson, and the by election losses in the spring more than reflected the tory's unpopularity at that time. |
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Post by dappy on Nov 14, 2022 12:45:44 GMT
True Andrew.
I did a bit of door knocking in the Tiverton election and it was striking just how vehement the dislike of Johnson was amongst a significant proportion of normal Tory voters (and how easy it was with a few choice words to make waverers form the same conclusion).
Tee hee.
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Post by see2 on Nov 14, 2022 12:53:08 GMT
Much depends on why the wealthy are wealthy and why the least well off are the least well off. A couple of anecdotes may help, I know a chap who borrowed from his employer to pay his rent for the week, once he had the cash advance he blew the lot on a night out. I know another chap who did not go out, worked regularly, accepted overtime and paid off his own large house by the time he was 40. I am not saying this is all but there is a large level of personal responsibility involved as regards relative wealth. As regards house prices it may be just good fortune that a hardworking, and relatively not well off retired couple live in a house in London, or other such areas that have seen a large rise in prices. They have paper wealth but no real wealth and a mansion tax would force them to move. If you took all the wealth from the UK and distributed it evenly to every individual in the UK whithin a short period of time there would be the wealthy and the poor for the exact reasons you have stated. Someone somewhere has some control of wealth distribution in the country. I believe in capitalism, in the fairness of reward for effort BUT, that 'fairness' ends at too high a point in my experience and in my opinion. I worked in a number of different areas of medium to heavy engineering for the first 30 years of my working life. In 1990, having had enough of seeing many engineering firms close down, I decided to retrain into a professional position, I quickly almost trebled my income plus benefits especially the improved working conditions and the level of respect I was treated with. My advice for those who can, it can be quite expensive and time consuming, find something you think you could do well at, and go for retraining. |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 17, 2022 8:24:35 GMT
The bedroom tax had a function outside of taxing people for the amount of bedrooms they had in their council houses iirc. In principle , is it right that people who have more bedrooms that they need ( in council houses) and block families that need the extra bedrooms? The problem with the “bedroom tax” was quite well illustrated by a survey of Welsh councils. I can’t recall who did it just the BBC headline reporting the returns Of the councils who responded it was found the councils had over 100,000 cases where they were issuing housing benefit to a person or family about to be kicked in the nuts by this measure, and less than 1200 homes with rooms such the impacted 100,000 families would not still be hit by this vicious charge. In a world where there are ample properties of an equivalent standard of finish into which families no longer officially designated as needing the size of house they are in could be relocated free of charge without disruption to their children’s education and lives generally, you might convince me this destruction of home security was necessary But to do it to people who have no option but to suffer the imposition of the penalty because there are over a hundred times as many people being sanctioned as there are options for them to avoid the punishment is just pure fucking evil. Especially since it is the party imposing the punishment that created the dearth of affordable rental properties by its destruction of the council sector |
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Post by johnofgwent on Nov 17, 2022 10:03:53 GMT
And Dappy will be delighted that one useless government will be replaced by another useless government. My recollection is that Labour has twice called a new election because they had too thin a majority. Well the useless UK electorate kept the useless Margaret Thatcher in office for 11 years. The uselessness led to the Conservative party having to get rid of her because the electorate were too brainwashed to be able to do the job. Well I was there to see that, and while I didn’t vote for her, I sure as hell wasn’t going to vote for the jerk in a donkey jacket that wanted to lead us into militant tendency governed oblivion. Fact is, for as long as I can recall looking backwards from now to my childhood years the changes of government have been caused not because the other side offered something new, exciting and fresh that broke the mould of British politics (copyright David Owen snd co 1982) but because the incumbent was so truly awful. Perhaps the finest example was the 1973 (ish) situation where an exasperated ted heath went to the country asking ‘who governs Britain’ and was rather abruptly told ‘not you, pal’ but I’m not sure Wilson was any better as his follow on BBC act. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 10:46:52 GMT
Oh dear, labour slide even further down the polls
The latest mainstream Opinion Poll was published 3 days ago as far as I know, it was a poll by Redfield & Wilton and this is what it shows .... LAB 50% (+1) CON 26% (-2) LIBD 9% (-2) GRN 5% (+1)
A Labour lead of 24 points CONCLUSION: according to this poll, the gap is widening.
Another poll published on the same day by Deltapoll has Labour with a 23 point lead - again indicating a widening of the Labour lead.
One particular poll is not an accurate indication, but IS a clue
However, a steady series of polls over a given period, all showing similar results can be regarded as a pretty accurate reflection of how things stand.
There cannot be any doubt that Labour are in a very commanding lead over the Conservatives, and have been in front of the Tories throughout 2022.
With the economy wrecked, living standards down, a recession which will take us to the next election, more austerity, more cuts to public services, I think anyone who believes that the good times are just around the corner for the Conservatives, are living in cloud cuckoo land.
I would say, prepare for the next LABOUR government
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Post by Fairsociety on Nov 17, 2022 10:48:42 GMT
Oh dear, labour slide even further down the polls The latest mainstream Opinion Poll was published 3 days ago as far as I know, it was a poll by Redfield & Wilton and this is what it shows .... LAB 50% (+1) CON 26% (-2) LIBD 9% (-2) GRN 5% (+1) A Labour lead of 24 points CONCLUSION: according to this poll, the gap is widening. Another poll published on the same day by Deltapoll has Labour with a 23 point lead - again indicating a widening of the Labour lead. One particular poll is not an accurate indication, but IS a clue However, a steady series of polls over a given period, all showing similar results can be regarded as a pretty accurate reflection of how things stand. There cannot be any doubt that Labour are in a very commanding lead over the Conservatives, and have been in front of the Tories throughout 2022. With the economy wrecked, living standards down, a recession which will take us to the next election, more austerity, more cuts to public services, I think anyone who believes that the good times are just around the corner for the Conservatives, are living in cloud cuckoo land. I would say, prepare for the next LABOUR government The sad part is Labour can't win enough seats to form a overall government, they'd need to form a coalition, most likely the Lib-dems, but also the SNP have been thrown in to the hat, worst of two evils. |
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