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Post by jonksy on Aug 16, 2023 10:24:03 GMT
As at 11am today 500 illegals have landed on English beaches. People traffickers in the EU state of France may beat all records today. What will Sunak do? Give Macron more cash perhaps. Edit: the first boat landed at 3.30am this morning. It's strange how no one is asking Starmer the same question, but his get out clause is 'we're not in power to do anything'.... bullshit.
There is plenty Starmer and Labour can be doing about it, they are in opposition government which doesn't mean they are lame ducks, we seen how they can operate when they want to, look how they fought with so much determination, they were exhausted fighting 'partygate', they made sure Johnson was gone, how come when it comes to the illegal migrants 'there's nothing we can do about' if only they showed that same enthusiasm, determination and relentlessness as they showed with partygate.
Well all know what that total pricks answer would be if asked mate. But of course it would only be valid for a couple of days.. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 16, 2023 10:34:04 GMT
As at 11am today 500 illegals have landed on English beaches. People traffickers in the EU state of France may beat all records today. What will Sunak do? Give Macron more cash perhaps. Edit: the first boat landed at 3.30am this morning. The only way forward is to take the boats and the people back to where they started. I can't see any other way. If there is an EU/UN outcry as there was when Australia cracked down, so be it. I agree, and if we did return them by force the EU would of course go mental and threaten all sorts of revenge. However I doubt the UN would say much because under the The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) it is perfectly legal to return people picked up at sea to the port or country they embarked from, and under the same convention it is also perfectly legal for any country with a sea border to forcibly stop any persons or vessels entering their territorial waters. So you see, international law is on our side, but sadly Sunak is frightened to upset the EU. |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 16, 2023 10:39:30 GMT
The only way forward is to take the boats and the people back to where they started. I can't see any other way. If there is an EU/UN outcry as there was when Australia cracked down, so be it. I agree, and if we did return them by force the EU would of course go mental and threaten all sorts of revenge. However I doubt the UN would say much because under the The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) it is perfectly legal to return people picked up at sea to the port or country they embarked from, and under the same convention it is also perfectly legal for any country with a sea border to forcibly stop any persons or vessels entering their territorial waters. So you see, international law is on our side, but sadly Sunak is frightened to upset the EU.And there you have it in a nutshell, this is why nothing is being done, the Tories are shit scared of upsetting France, and the EU, they have the remoaners breathing down their necks .... don't upset our EU elite, we want to rejoin them as soon as possible.
There is no Tory leader who is going to tackle France, Johnson wouldn't do it, Sunak is not going to do it, we can't upset France/Macron, and Starmer will just roll over, he'll give them anything they desire, and will bring the EU first the UK last, nothing can be done about these illegal migrants because we don't have anyone in power with a backbone.
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 16, 2023 10:51:39 GMT
I agree, and if we did return them by force the EU would of course go mental and threaten all sorts of revenge. However I doubt the UN would say much because under the The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) it is perfectly legal to return people picked up at sea to the port or country they embarked from, and under the same convention it is also perfectly legal for any country with a sea border to forcibly stop any persons or vessels entering their territorial waters. So you see, international law is on our side, but sadly Sunak is frightened to upset the EU.And there you have it in a nutshell, this is why nothing is being done, the Tories are shit scared of upsetting France, and the EU, they have the remoaners breathing down their necks .... don't upset our EU elite, we want to rejoin them as soon as possible.
There is no Tory leader who is going to tackle France, Johnson wouldn't do it, Sunak is not going to do it, we can't upset France/Macron, and Starmer will just roll over, he'll give them anything they desire, and will bring the EU first the UK last, nothing can be done about these illegal migrants because we don't have anyone in power with a backbone.
Indeed, it's been said before but this is planned. We could easilly stop the illegal invasion but none of our political leaders want to. So what's the answer? Do what many people in the EU are doing, vote for change vote for a centre right/right wing party. There's an election next year, I don't trust the LibDems, Labour or the Tories, so I'll be voting Reform. |
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Post by jonksy on Aug 16, 2023 11:03:01 GMT
And there you have it in a nutshell, this is why nothing is being done, the Tories are shit scared of upsetting France, and the EU, they have the remoaners breathing down their necks .... don't upset our EU elite, we want to rejoin them as soon as possible.
There is no Tory leader who is going to tackle France, Johnson wouldn't do it, Sunak is not going to do it, we can't upset France/Macron, and Starmer will just roll over, he'll give them anything they desire, and will bring the EU first the UK last, nothing can be done about these illegal migrants because we don't have anyone in power with a backbone.
Indeed, it's been said before but this is planned. We could easilly stop the illegal invasion but none of our political leaders want to. So what's the answer? Do what many people in the EU are doing, vote for change vote for a centre right/right wing party. There's an election next year, I don't trust the LibDems, Labour or the Tories, so I'll be voting Reform. Wehave nobody here with a pair of balls mate. I see one tory MP is stating we should use our chinniks to send this dross back to frogland. But of course that would lead to many of those who are feint of heart in the UK having a coronary with their faux indignation. Maye you few of em would go tits up which would be no bad thing in my estimation. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 16, 2023 11:26:40 GMT
For goodness sake, get a grip folks. Red seems to want us to load asylum seekers onto a warship and let it fight its way into a French port and forcably offload these people in France without French consent. In short start a war with our neighbour. Fairsociety wants Starmer to stage a coup against Sunak, grab power so that he can be responsible for Government solving the crisis. That will have to wait until after the electorate get rid of Sunak next Spring/Autumn.
Meanwhile back in the real world, we are paying the price for the Johnson government and the Sunak government being interested solely in pandering to the tabloids rather than taking the less glamorous but more productive route of practical measures to resolve the issues. Actually that is common across most public services which have been neglected by his shambles of a government. The new government has so many things to fix.
In terms of asylum, the fix is relatively simple. Agree a deal with France that meets some of their as well as our needs. That may well be a reporting point in Calais where people seeking asylum in the UK can claim without having to make the crossing causing cost and disruption in France and hence end the small boats crisis overnight, safe passage across the channel and investment in speeding up decision making (france and germany decide two or three times quicker than we do), a review of decision criteria such that we accept or reject on a similar basis to Western Europe (they reject more than we do) and ideally an agreement that if we do all that they agree (or better still we have an EU/British joint agreement to work together on returns) to take back failed asylum seekers for return to home countries . All that though will take time to sort out - no easy instant solutions especially given the utter mess Johnson, Patel, Sunak and Braverman will have left behind.
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 16, 2023 11:26:45 GMT
Indeed, it's been said before but this is planned. We could easilly stop the illegal invasion but none of our political leaders want to. So what's the answer? Do what many people in the EU are doing, vote for change vote for a centre right/right wing party. There's an election next year, I don't trust the LibDems, Labour or the Tories, so I'll be voting Reform. Wehave nobody here with a pair of balls mate. I see one tory MP is stating we should use our chinniks to send this dross back to frogland. But of course that would lead to many of those who are feint of heart in the UK having a coronary with their faux indignation. Maye you few of em would go tits up which would be no bad thing in my estimation. We should stop them entering British territorial waters, by force if necessary. It would initially cause a bit of fuss as it did in Australia, but people would soon get the message. Our biggest problem is not illegals crossing the channel, our biggest problem is weak politicians. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 16, 2023 11:34:58 GMT
Red
You are being fanciful. It is impossible in the real world to stop desperate people finding ways whether by boat or lorry or container. You are making the same mistake as the Government - unrealistic big gestures that would look good in papers but wont make a difference.
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 16, 2023 11:38:21 GMT
For goodness sake, get a grip folks. Red seems to want us to load asylum seekers onto a warship and let it fight its way into a French port and forcably offload these people in France without French consent. In short start a war with our neighbour. Fairsociety wants Starmer to stage a coup against Sunak, grab power so that he can be responsible for Government solving the crisis. That will have to wait until after the electorate get rid of Sunak next Spring/Autumn. Meanwhile back in the real world, we are paying the price for the Johnson government and the Sunak government being interested solely in pandering to the tabloids rather than taking the less glamorous but more productive route of practical measures to resolve the issues. Actually that is common across most public services which have been neglected by his shambles of a government. The new government has so many things to fix. In terms of asylum, the fix is relatively simple. Agree a deal with France that meets some of their as well as our needs. That may well be a reporting point in Calais where people seeking asylum in the UK can claim without having to make the crossing causing cost and disruption in France and hence end the small boats crisis overnight, safe passage across the channel and investment in speeding up decision making (france and germany decide two or three times quicker than we do), a review of decision criteria such that we accept or reject on a similar basis to Western Europe (they reject more than we do) and ideally an agreement that if we do all that they agree (or better still we have an EU/British joint agreement to work together on returns) to take back failed asylum seekers for return to home countries . All that though will take time to sort out - no easy instant solutions especially given the utter mess Johnson, Patel, Sunak and Braverman will have left behind. Article 33. Contiguous zone. 1. In a zone contiguous to its territorial sea, described as the contiguous zone, the coastal State may exercise the control necessary to: (a) prevent infringement of its customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations within its territory or territorial sea; (b) punish infringement of the above laws and regulations committed within its territory or territorial sea. 2. The contiguous zone may not extend beyond 24 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured. www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdfIf Sunak returned illegals to the EU and/or stopped illegals entering British territorial waters, the contiguous zone, international law would be on his side. If France decided to stop British vessels returning illegals, as I'm sure they would, they would be in contravention of international law which would be for the EU/French, international courts and the UN to sort out. |
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Post by Orac on Aug 16, 2023 11:41:46 GMT
Dappy is still pressing to enlarge the queue with incentives and to bring in large numbers with no hope of deportation. His 'practical solution' amounts to exterminating UK society by the quickest route possible.
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 16, 2023 11:42:36 GMT
Red You are being fanciful. It is impossible in the real world to stop desperate people finding ways whether by boat or lorry or container. You are making the same mistake as the Government - unrealistic big gestures that would look good in papers but wont make a difference. yes they are desperate, desperate to get to the UK so they can abuse our hospitality, and run their criminal empires ... why would they be desperate to leave France, no one is forcing them in to dinghies, they just don't want to remain in France, because Macron has none of their nonsense and demands. |
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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 16, 2023 11:43:21 GMT
Red You are being fanciful. It is impossible in the real world to stop desperate people finding ways whether by boat or lorry or container. You are making the same mistake as the Government - unrealistic big gestures that would look good in papers but wont make a difference. Desperate people! LOL. Desperate people who pay criminals thousands of euros to get them from safe country 'A' to safe country 'B', and destroy all documentation so they cant be identified. These people are criminals and should be treated accordingly. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 16, 2023 11:49:47 GMT
Keep on pandering to tabloid headlines and failing to understand the reality of the situation if you wish but if you do like Johnson and Patel and Sunak and Braverman, you will get supportive headlines in the Express and Mail but you will fail to address the real world problem
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Post by Orac on Aug 16, 2023 12:00:04 GMT
Keep on pandering to tabloid headlines and failing to understand the reality of the situation if you wish but if you do like Johnson and Patel and Sunak and Braverman, you will get supportive headlines in the Express and Mail but you will fail to address the real world problem This almost comes across as a threat - I have my boot on your people's neck, so there is no point struggling. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2023 12:04:00 GMT
Red You are being fanciful. It is impossible in the real world to stop desperate people finding ways whether by boat or lorry or container. You are making the same mistake as the Government - unrealistic big gestures that would look good in papers but wont make a difference. Australia proved your notion wrong, Dappy. It is possible as it has been done. I'm happy to help genuine asylum seekers, however these boat people are not. Genuine asylum seekers will arrive by an approved method clutching their passport. |
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