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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 18, 2022 12:31:08 GMT
I would be interested to know how you would define "English culture". Which BTW was largely seeded by William the Conquerer over a thousand years ago. He pretty much erased what was in England before 1066. I mentioned Scruton's 'England, An Elegy' earlier. That would be a good place to start. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 18, 2022 12:39:51 GMT
"British culture is something we are allowed to spread around the world along with our religion and rule of law but it is not allowed to be influenced by any outside sources that result from that global empire. "
In truth the cultural influences that have arisen from our former global empire are quite trivial - one commentator summed them up as 'Saris, samosas and steel drums' - and can often be malevolent or threatening, while those which have come from continental Europe have proved valuable beyond measure.
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Post by jeg er on Nov 18, 2022 12:45:09 GMT
"British culture is something we are allowed to spread around the world along with our religion and rule of law but it is not allowed to be influenced by any outside sources that result from that global empire. " In truth the cultural influences that have arisen from our former global empire are quite trivial - one commentator called it 'Saris, samosa and steel drums' - and often malevolent or threatening, while those which have come from continental Europe have proved valuable beyond measure. yes, i must admit, there are certain no go areas in my town where i am scared to tread for fear of being attacked by a Sari wearing samosa playing the steel drums |
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 18, 2022 12:45:10 GMT
QED. A handy review of the reviews of Scruton's England is available in the Guardian which will no doubt be dismissed without being read because of the source and despite it containing the views of critics from right wing papers such as the Times. www.theguardian.com/books/2000/nov/16/1 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2022 12:47:29 GMT
I don't think that is what any of us terrible Anglo Saxons are trying to do and say at all. Everyone has a core culture and this is recognised by all cultures, tribes and even the UN. To try to erase it is a form of genocide as it attempts to erase the people to whom it belongs at the same time. It is a sneaky and, in my opinion, reprehensible thing to do to anyone. |
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 18, 2022 13:02:07 GMT
There's little question that Scruton's views are deeply unfashionable, which is why you should read them for yourself rather than relying on the perhaps jaundiced perspectives of those who don't like what he has/had to say about the current state of society.
Especially if you wish to learn about English culture, which you certainly won't do by reading the Guardian.
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Post by Montegriffo on Nov 18, 2022 13:21:41 GMT
Another word for unfashionable is outdated which certainly describes certain people's views on English culture.
People who would readily dismiss outside influences on our culture as 'Saris, samosa and steel drums' and completely ignore the many enrichments of it which have led to chicken tikka Masala overtaking fish and chips as Britain's favourite dish and reggae influencing seminal British bands from UB40 to The Police and The Clash.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 18, 2022 13:45:09 GMT
Enrichments, eh. 
I'd better add a bit more rhubarb so I don't get accused of being a drive-by one-line merchant.
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Post by Equivocal on Nov 18, 2022 14:01:29 GMT
"The bone of contention tends to be whether ethnic English is a biological group or a cultural group." The normative definition of an ethnie allows for both.
A shared culture is more or less essential, a shared race is not essential.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2022 14:04:41 GMT
Firstly, I am not a Conservative nor am I a Christian, so Who Stole Our Culture is not something I would recommend to anyone not associated with Christianity or Conservatism as we know it today and in America.
But ...
There is a passage in it that resonates with what some of us in certain groups were involved with at one time and that is this:
That is what I had hoped British Nationalism was all about. So did many others. Unfortunately, that turned out to be not the case. They were not like us, they were a disorganised bunch of semi-nazi, socialist, mostly Christian or Odinist national socialist individuals who spent most of their time suspecting everyone of being a spy and calling anyone not an extremist of their sort to be a left wing plant, mentally unstable or a badass. So British Nationalism fell on its face. It was also impregnated with former apartheid era police operatives and other assorted racists and so, once people discovered this, they left supporting British Nationalism in droves. End of that story. It is unlikely ever to rise again. They killed themselves as people are inclined to do today.
But the idea of starting a parallel universe of Western cultural centres is an enduring possibility and aspiration for regeneration. However ...
Anyone trying to start up one of these institutions or schools or cultural centres will be closed down and read the riot act by wokerati officials using the law. So the possibility of restoration has been strangled in its birth canal by the powers that be who now use the law to prevent white people from being what they are and learning about what they were.
The internet is populated with a troll army of thousands who spend all their time gainsaying anything anyone says with regard to western civilization or cultures. This is mentioned in the link Dan provided and it is perfectly true. These individuals move from forum to forum, picking out targets and nay saying until they have completely destroyed the poster with a divergent opinion to the hymn sheet. Usually, it's a question of job done as they fall away.
If anyone can think of any way in which beleaguered westerners might circumvent the establishment police state tactics then good for whoever tries, but it won't be long before you are found, examined, found wanting and attacked, libelled, lied about, insulted to death, ridiculed and rendered persona non grata.
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 18, 2022 14:08:22 GMT
"The bone of contention tends to be whether ethnic English is a biological group or a cultural group." The normative definition of an ethnie allows for both.
A shared culture is more or less essential, a shared race is not essential.
I'll repeat the earlier question then which went unanswered: "Are you aware of any multi-racial ethnic groups". |
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Post by Orac on Nov 18, 2022 14:14:39 GMT
Culture tends to be handed down from parents to child, along with race. A race is a group who is separated from others for long enough to become distinguishable. A distinct culture also grows out of such a group.
I find the notion that this deep history can all just be astro-turfed away by moving sufficiently large number of people from place to place distinctly shaky. English culture, for instance, has a complex normative behaviour pattern that grew out of centuries of competitor patterns being (quite literally) killed off. Elsewhere, the winner was some other normative pattern. In places that have a radically different culture, the winning behaviour pattern was radically different. Historically these competitions for behavioural territorial dominion are settled by killing people (or socially deselecting them).
The above is an obvious problem that anyone can see with a bit of thought. It seems the current fashionable solution to the dilemma is to tell the English that they do not exist, that they never existed, and they have no right at all to behave as if they do. This is not workable imho.
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Post by Equivocal on Nov 18, 2022 14:33:22 GMT
A shared culture is more or less essential, a shared race is not essential.
I'll repeat the earlier question then which went unanswered: "Are you aware of any multi-racial ethnic groups". The Jewish ethnic group springs to mind. |
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Post by Equivocal on Nov 18, 2022 14:43:56 GMT
Culture tends to be handed down from parents to child, along with race. A race is a group who is separated from others for long enough to become distinguishable. A distinct culture also grows out of such a group. I find the notion that this deep history can all just be astro-turfed away by moving sufficiently large number of people from place to place distinctly shaky. English culture, for instance, has a complex normative behaviour pattern that grew out of centuries of competitor patterns being (quite literally) killed off. Elsewhere, the winner was some other normative pattern. In places that have a radically different culture, the winning behaviour pattern was radically different. Historically these competitions for behavioural territorial dominion are settled by killing people (or socially deselecting them). The above is an obvious problem that anyone can see with a bit of thought. It seems the current fashionable solution to the dilemma is to tell the English that they do not exist, that they never existed, and they have no right at all to behave as if they do. This is not workable imho. If it were true that English culture had been killed off, it would be a problem. Culture is obviously subject to change, but I don't think English core values have changed very much in my lifetime.
Accepting the cultural evolution of different races; do you think separate cultural evolution prevents assimilation into a new cultural group?
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Post by Dan Dare on Nov 18, 2022 15:39:00 GMT
I'll repeat the earlier question then which went unanswered: "Are you aware of any multi-racial ethnic groups". The Jewish ethnic group springs to mind. That's an interesting one. I think Jews themselves are in two minds about whether they constitute an ethnic group. On the hand they are happy to accept that the laws against racial discrimination treat them as a 'distinct racial grouping' but on the other they have resisted any efforts to have 'Jewish' included amongst other ethnic groups on official forms and surveys, including the most recent census. As I understand it, community leaders instruct British Jews to identify themselves as 'White British' in such cases.
They also resist being included amongst the general BME (or BAME) category since that would be perceived to be a demotion and probably unnecessary given the prevailing state philo-semitism.. You never hear of Jewish MPs or peers, for example, being included in any list of 'ethnic minority' parliamentarians.
Can you think of any others?
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