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Post by Red Rackham on Aug 3, 2023 7:51:41 GMT
The so called "Portland Barge" is an accommodation vessel built to house 222 people The government is expecting it to house over 500 people The very militant FBU ( Fire Brigades Union ) has demanded a meeting with Suella Braverman, amid "grave concerns" about Lack of entrance and exit points - narrow corridors and doorways - over-occupancy - fire fighters lives will be put at risk if a fire breaks out. "The FBU believes fire safety standards are universal and apply to everyone. These matters are both industrial and political. They matter because our members will be called upon in the event of an emergency. They also matter to us because fire and rescue is a humanitarian service, designed to protect everyone regardless of their circumstances or background. Fire does not discriminate and therefore neither should safety regulations. Firefighting operations on vessels such as the Bibby Stockholm provide significant challenges and require specialist training and safe systems of work. The diminished safety provisions only exacerbate our operational concerns" The government can look out if the FBU are on the war path Funnily enough I was saying to The Bloke only last night that the first thing the asylum seekers will do is set fire to it. Probably on the advice of their tax payer funded lefty lawyers. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 3, 2023 10:08:30 GMT
Out of interest Red , are you interested whether the "barge" is safe for human occupation on the scale envisaged from a fire safety perspective or are you happy to let them burn to death if the barge catches fire. Does your answer change in respect of the other 499 if the fire was started deliberately by one man claiming asylum?
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 3, 2023 10:29:58 GMT
Oliver Dowden: "FBU concerns over asylum seeker barge politically motivated"
On Radio 4's Today programme:
"...Of course, we’ll take into account those concerns and that’s exactly what we’re doing.
I would just gently say the Fire Brigades Union has donated £850,000 to the Labour party since 2010. It is affiliated to the Labour party, and I’m afraid what we see with this is exactly what we saw with trying to pass the legislation earlier this year through parliament."
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Post by Pacifico on Aug 3, 2023 10:33:45 GMT
This barge has been used safely all over Europe for decades to provide accommodation - it's funny that it has suddenly become a death trap when it is suggested that we house illegal migrants in it.
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Post by dappy on Aug 3, 2023 10:34:02 GMT
I don't know how safe from a fire perspective the "barge" is Dan. I wouldn't take Oliver Dowden's word for it. Any building would need a fire safety certificate usually administered by the Fire Service. Don't know if the same applies to what is technically a ship but in my view similar standards should apply.
I asked Red a question above. He hasn't answered yet but would be interested in your answer too.
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Post by Handyman on Aug 3, 2023 10:45:58 GMT
This barge has been used safely all over Europe for decades to provide accommodation - it's funny that it has suddenly become a death trap when it is suggested that we house illegal migrants in it. Yes indeed if I recall correctly it has undergone a total refit in order to house the alleged Asylum seekers and Migrants that arrived here by unlawful means , but there is an issue with fire safety which apparently the Fire Brigade Union has written to the Government about, why ? those who refitted it have to put it right |
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Post by Fairsociety on Aug 3, 2023 10:56:12 GMT
This barge has been used safely all over Europe for decades to provide accommodation - it's funny that it has suddenly become a death trap when it is suggested that we house illegal migrants in it. Yes indeed if I recall correctly it has undergone a total refit in order to house the alleged Asylum seekers and Migrants that arrived here by unlawful means , but there is an issue with fire safety which apparently the Fire Brigade Union has written to the Government about, why ? those who refitted it have to put it right It's strange that these illegal migrants don't seem to have the same health and safety fears when they are crossing the Channel in all sorts of weather conditions, hoping to reach the UK on a wing and a prayer. |
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Post by dappy on Aug 3, 2023 10:57:41 GMT
The government has changed the usage of the "barge" and significantly increased its planned capacity from how it has been used before. It appears that fire exits remain unchanged and hence in the event of a fire you have more people trying to exit through the same number of exists which may not be achievable and safe. I understand there are also fire safety issues due to containment pens dockside which restrict in a fire residents ability to get away from a burning ship and hence cause back up onto the barge for later escapees.
Whether the exit routes present an acceptable level of risk for the planned number of residents would for a building be for the Fire Brigade to determine. I don't know what they have concluded. Not sure if the same rules apply for a "ship" but given the quasi building nature of the use surely the same rules should apply as for buildings. Hence my question above initially to Red which I note remains unanswered.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 3, 2023 11:17:00 GMT
I don't understand the distinction between a barge and a ship. Both need fire precautions and fire suppression systems.
What you can't legislate for of course is the presence of pyro-maniacs on board although why anybody would be mad enough or stupid enough to set fire to the vessel they are living on is quite beyond me.
Much of the Angst surrounding this question appears to be resulting from the fact that the Bibby Stockholm has been re-configured to hold double the number of asylum seekers as it did workers in previous incarnations. But what's so horrible about that? Anybody here ever been on a British troopship? Ever read about the Queen Mary which used to ferry 10,000 GIs at a time across the Atlantic?
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Post by dappy on Aug 3, 2023 11:45:08 GMT
If you double the number of inhabitants Dan you need to ensure that double the number of people can still safely evacuate the premises. You also need to check that any on shore measures do not create a bottleneck preventing people evacuating. While arson is unlikely, individuals do odd things. I presume no one is happy for 499 people to die if one person sets fire to the boat, but seems people are reluctant to confirm.
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Post by Handyman on Aug 3, 2023 11:47:36 GMT
Exactly Dan
The Government have not changed the usage of this Barge it was specifically designed by the owners to house workers in various places over the years, the Government does not own it it is on hire to them , it belongs to the Bibby Line Marine Company, they are the ones responsible for the safety of all who on board, it either passes all the tests or it does not
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Post by dappy on Aug 3, 2023 11:53:59 GMT
That isn't the correct legal position Handyman.
The Home Office is responsible for the safety of anyone it chooses to accommodate on the "barge".
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 3, 2023 12:03:26 GMT
Does the FBU have similar concerns about ingress and egress to and from the dozens of cruise ships that visit British ports in the course of a year, most of which are accommodating thousands of passengers? If they do, we don't seem to have heard about it. What is so special about the barge? It's just a motorless vessel.
Seems to me to be Much Ado About Nothing unless, as Dowden asserts, it is all just politically motivated.
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Post by dappy on Aug 3, 2023 12:13:51 GMT
Cruise ships do have extensive fire safety requirements to satisfy Dan. They of course were designed for the number of passengers they carry.
How do you conclude that this is "much Ado about nothing" without knowing what the fire precautions are on board and on alighting onto shore in the event of a fire.?
Would you be happy to put 500 people onto a "barge" if there are inadequate fire exits to allow that number of people to exit in the event of a fire. Do you care or is it OK for a large number of people to die in the event of a fire if they have brown skin.
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Post by Dan Dare on Aug 3, 2023 12:31:18 GMT
You don't seem to have taken the point dappy. In terms of options for ingress and egress a cruise ship with 5,000 passengers is just as limited as the barge in that respect. I haven't heard about any other actual problems other than difficulty of access and exit, except one migrant advocate was wittering about the long, narrow corridors "you can touch each wall when walking down". She's obviously never been on a cruise ship let alone a channel ferry.
As for being designed for the intended use, photos of the cabins in the press look remarkably similar to lower-end cruise cabins but with the important difference that all barge cabins have a window; inside cabins on a cruise ship do not and nor do they on ferries.
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