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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 14:34:16 GMT
?? Do you have a link to the rainfall increase per minute you referred to. Averages are averages of highest and lowest and everything in between. Did the 315 break a record or is it just one of those we had a lot of rain last week. I remember the Home International Championships in 1968, held over one week and it rained all week. Flash floods on the pitch and swimming competitions in the goalmouth. Unusual but not exceptional. No I don't. Does anyone record rainfall per minute? No, but the stations do record it hourly, so you should be able to find some statistics or data to support your assertion about flash flooding increasing, otherwise it is just another baseless bit of waffle. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 3, 2023 17:28:59 GMT
Oh I agree as I live in SW Scotland and I can assure you it is much wetter than the East. However the reporting is separated out into countries (as well as regions within that). It is these averages that are commonly thrown at us to show how such and such is happening. The UK is becoming wetter they say, but only in the north. It is a generalisation but the generalisation leads to a misconception that England and Wales are also becoming wetter which they are not and if my memeory serves the comment as regards flash flooding was specifically related to England which it was said was becoming wetter and starting to develop a Med type climate. Im not sure where you are getting your information from sandy , but with respect it sounds like a lazy stereotype.
With respect to your point , articles and met office data are showing the opposite to what you are claiming. The "north" of the uk( which as we know can mean anything in englandshire from northern england to scotland to northern scotland)is not becoming wetter than the south. Flash flooding as i understand it in the uk is more of a problem in the built up areas.
Scotland drier than London?
While the north of the UK witnesses wildfires and droughts, the south is experiencing record rainfall
The south of the UK is set to be wetter than the north this summer.
I was referring to average annual rainfall whereby England and Wales have remained fairly steady with the highest and lowest but Scotland has been increasing. I think I have already linked to an image of the England and Wales annual average rainfall. Are records currently expected to be broken or is it just a wet year for some parts of England. Zany keeps saying weather is becoming wetter/drier/hotter/heavier/more often/Uncle Tom Cobley but seems unable to provide data that backs up this claim |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 3, 2023 17:59:18 GMT
How do you know it is increasing then? Am I missing something, there is no change in rainfall patterns in England, there is no increase in rainfall events, no one measures rainfall per minute which you mentioned as a factor yet flash floods are increasing as a result of this non change and all of this is down to AGW. Because the met office say so. Because the science says so. Warmer air holds more water, causes heavier rainfalls. Fine if they say so, do you have a link to where they do say so and the data that paints this picture? |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 3, 2023 19:21:56 GMT
No I don't. Does anyone record rainfall per minute? No, but the stations do record it hourly, so you should be able to find some statistics or data to support your assertion about flash flooding increasing, otherwise it is just another baseless bit of waffle. You're right I could probably look up reading from hundreds of weather stations over the last 30 years and put together a chart showing increased torrential rainfall, but someone would point out it rained harder in 1763 or the paleoskeptic age. I could quote the IPCC or NASA or the Met Office or even farmers weekly. Do you think any of that would result in anyone on here saying "Ok so it seems you're right and flash flooding due to monsoon like rainfall due to a warmer climate is happening" No, nothing would change. I can't even get a straight answer to how we should pay for the changes we will need to adjust to our new weather patterns. Not even from those to say its happening but its China's fault. And the claim is I'm the indoctrinated one. Sigh. |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 3, 2023 20:32:45 GMT
No, but the stations do record it hourly, so you should be able to find some statistics or data to support your assertion about flash flooding increasing, otherwise it is just another baseless bit of waffle. You're right I could probably look up reading from hundreds of weather stations over the last 30 years and put together a chart showing increased torrential rainfall, but someone would point out it rained harder in 1763 or the paleoskeptic age. I could quote the IPCC or NASA or the Met Office or even farmers weekly. Do you think any of that would result in anyone on here saying "Ok so it seems you're right and flash flooding due to monsoon like rainfall due to a warmer climate is happening" No, nothing would change. I can't even get a straight answer to how we should pay for the changes we will need to adjust to our new weather patterns. Not even from those to say its happening but its China's fault. And the claim is I'm the indoctrinated one. Sigh. You are the one saying things are changing, if they are show us who is saying it with a direct link, I can take it from there. So far if someone is saying it no evidence is being produced as far as I can see. Would you just take someones word for it? I will not argue with facts, if rainfall is increasing, and I accept that Scottish rainfall is increasing, then that is the situation. However this thread is predicated on the fact that a reading was taken in 1913 that is now being down graded on many spurious and assumed grounds because it does not fit with the current narrative. It is this type of playing with facts and taking near runway temperatures with jets landing as definitive figures for 'look how warm it is becoming' that causes the problems. Most of the data is straightforward, what is done to the data and indeed how it was obtained is another story altogether. No one seems to have indicated what the changes are that we need to make if our climate is indeed becoming warmer and wetter/drier. So far it seems to be those below average income will be priced out of car ownership but will have everything they need within 15 minutes of home which seems a bit pie in the sky. As regards indoctrination the evidence so far from dodgy stats misleading imagery and straightforwards lies and assumptions seems to be largely on the warmist side from the hockey stick onwards. This is what is making scepticism on AGW increasing and the deaths from heat/cold comparison charts is just another one which no matter what way you look at it was intended to deceive. EDIT. As regards Scottish rainfall it is interesting to note that I can see the windfarm on Kintyre some 20 miles away and on occasions some quite hefty clouds are formed in the downwind side that are tailed behind the turbines. Is it possible that turbines en masse are having an effect on the rainfall locally. I do not know I only offer this as an observation. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 20:37:08 GMT
No, but the stations do record it hourly, so you should be able to find some statistics or data to support your assertion about flash flooding increasing, otherwise it is just another baseless bit of waffle. You're right I could probably look up reading from hundreds of weather stations over the last 30 years and put together a chart showing increased torrential rainfall, but someone would point out it rained harder in 1763 or the paleoskeptic age. I could quote the IPCC or NASA or the Met Office or even farmers weekly. Do you think any of that would result in anyone on here saying "Ok so it seems you're right and flash flooding due to monsoon like rainfall due to a warmer climate is happening" No, nothing would change. I can't even get a straight answer to how we should pay for the changes we will need to adjust to our new weather patterns. Not even from those to say its happening but its China's fault. And the claim is I'm the indoctrinated one. Sigh. That's a long way round to say, "No, I can't substantiate my flash floods assertions waffle". Surrender accepted. Keep sighing. |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 3, 2023 20:59:25 GMT
You're right I could probably look up reading from hundreds of weather stations over the last 30 years and put together a chart showing increased torrential rainfall, but someone would point out it rained harder in 1763 or the paleoskeptic age. I could quote the IPCC or NASA or the Met Office or even farmers weekly. Do you think any of that would result in anyone on here saying "Ok so it seems you're right and flash flooding due to monsoon like rainfall due to a warmer climate is happening" No, nothing would change. I can't even get a straight answer to how we should pay for the changes we will need to adjust to our new weather patterns. Not even from those to say its happening but its China's fault. And the claim is I'm the indoctrinated one. Sigh. That's a long way round to say, "No, I can't substantiate my flash floods assertions waffle". Surrender accepted. Keep sighing. agreed |
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Post by thomas on Aug 4, 2023 7:01:31 GMT
Im not sure where you are getting your information from sandy , but with respect it sounds like a lazy stereotype.
With respect to your point , articles and met office data are showing the opposite to what you are claiming. The "north" of the uk( which as we know can mean anything in englandshire from northern england to scotland to northern scotland)is not becoming wetter than the south. Flash flooding as i understand it in the uk is more of a problem in the built up areas.
Scotland drier than London?
While the north of the UK witnesses wildfires and droughts, the south is experiencing record rainfall
The south of the UK is set to be wetter than the north this summer.
I was referring to average annual rainfall whereby England and Wales have remained fairly steady with the highest and lowest but Scotland has been increasing. I think I have already linked to an image of the England and Wales annual average rainfall. Are records currently expected to be broken or is it just a wet year for some parts of England. Zany keeps saying weather is becoming wetter/drier/hotter/heavier/more often/Uncle Tom Cobley but seems unable to provide data that backs up this claim you are wrong in what you said.
Not only by my two previous links , but historically.
The weather in our islands are determined by the atlantic ocean to our west. This means , historically , the west , not the north , is wettest , and the east , not the south is the driest.
Thats why large parts of invernesshire , or moray , are historically drier than large parts of england.
The dividing line in meteorology in terms of rainfall for our islands is west east sandy , not north south as you hinted.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 4, 2023 14:32:14 GMT
I was referring to average annual rainfall whereby England and Wales have remained fairly steady with the highest and lowest but Scotland has been increasing. I think I have already linked to an image of the England and Wales annual average rainfall. Are records currently expected to be broken or is it just a wet year for some parts of England. Zany keeps saying weather is becoming wetter/drier/hotter/heavier/more often/Uncle Tom Cobley but seems unable to provide data that backs up this claim you are wrong in what you said.
Not only by my two previous links , but historically.
The weather in our islands are determined by the atlantic ocean to our west. This means , historically , the west , not the north , is wettest , and the east , not the south is the driest.
Thats why large parts of invernesshire , or moray , are historically drier than large parts of england.
The dividing line in meteorology in terms of rainfall for our islands is west east sandy , not north south as you hinted.
I would not disagree but then you are not understanding what I actually said. I said England and Wales are not at odds with their historical data with no indication of increasing rainfall as yet. Scotland is however showing an increase over the last few decades from the historical record. It matters little which part is the wettest or driest as I was referring to the average of each country. The Met office has said the UK is increasing but this is skewed by the Scottish result showing an increase. It was an observation. I did pontificate upon wind turbines affecting local climate since they tend to make the air at ground level warmer and the air higher up cooler but any research in this area seems to be pretty sparse. I do note however that wind turbines can on occasion create a trailing cloud appear when normally there would be none but again that is an observation on my part and also by a few others. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 4, 2023 14:47:20 GMT
you are wrong in what you said.
Not only by my two previous links , but historically.
The weather in our islands are determined by the atlantic ocean to our west. This means , historically , the west , not the north , is wettest , and the east , not the south is the driest.
Thats why large parts of invernesshire , or moray , are historically drier than large parts of england.
The dividing line in meteorology in terms of rainfall for our islands is west east sandy , not north south as you hinted.
I would not disagree but then you are not understanding what I actually said. I said England and Wales are not at odds with their historical data with no indication of increasing rainfall as yet. Scotland is however showing an increase over the last few decades from the historical record. It matters little which part is the wettest or driest as I was referring to the average of each country. The Met office has said the UK is increasing but this is skewed by the Scottish result showing an increase. It was an observation. i understood perfectly what you said and replied in depth , in my previous posts.
?
Wet wet wet: 10% more rain falling in Wales due to climate change say Met Office
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Post by thomas on Aug 4, 2023 14:50:33 GMT
you are wrong in what you said.
Not only by my two previous links , but historically.
The weather in our islands are determined by the atlantic ocean to our west. This means , historically , the west , not the north , is wettest , and the east , not the south is the driest.
Thats why large parts of invernesshire , or moray , are historically drier than large parts of england.
The dividing line in meteorology in terms of rainfall for our islands is west east sandy , not north south as you hinted.
. I said England and Wales are not at odds with their historical data with no indication of increasing rainfall as yet. ive addressed this earlier with links , and again you are wrong. Not only is this year seeing southern england wetter than normal , but the metoffice are saying wales has seen 10 % more rainfall than the average over recent decades, as has western england.
Wales has the historically wettest area of the entire uk.
Sorry totally disagree with you sandy. By all means argue with zanys suggestion flash flooding is peurly down to man made climate change , but dont muddy the water by making claims that dont stack up.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 4, 2023 15:10:41 GMT
. I said England and Wales are not at odds with their historical data with no indication of increasing rainfall as yet. ive addressed this earlier with links , and again you are wrong. Not only is this year seeing southern england wetter than normal , but the metoffice are saying wales has seen 10 % more rainfall than the average over recent decades, as has western england.
Wales has the historically wettest area of the entire uk.
Sorry totally disagree with you sandy. By all means argue with zanys suggestion flash flooding is peurly down to man made climate change , but dont muddy the water by making claims that dont stack up.
Well here is England and Wales up to 2019  As can be see there is no increasing trend. There may be locally some records broken, but that would be consistent with historical records which always have records being broken at some location. The critical factor is is the average changing for England and Wales, it seems not When Scotland is included then the trend is an increasing trend. The question arises as regards how far down the rabbit hole do we go in looking at regional weather as an indication of something greater happening. Zany said, with specific reference to England that the weather was becoming wetter and moving to a Med climate. Nothing indicates he is right and he seems singularly unable to provide any data that backs up his opinion. One year is not climate, one year is weather. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 4, 2023 15:25:00 GMT
ive addressed this earlier with links , and again you are wrong. Not only is this year seeing southern england wetter than normal , but the metoffice are saying wales has seen 10 % more rainfall than the average over recent decades, as has western england.
Wales has the historically wettest area of the entire uk.
Sorry totally disagree with you sandy. By all means argue with zanys suggestion flash flooding is peurly down to man made climate change , but dont muddy the water by making claims that dont stack up.
Well here is England and Wales up to 2019 aye. I saw that earlier. Where is the comparable data for scotland please?
i would have to read the link in depth , and see where you got your data from.
you havent given us any comparable date for scotland , you have only made an erronous claim about the north versus south , which i have already dissected earlier. The dividing line is west versus east , and the british islands as a whole have a similar climate as i have already said apart from a rough line from the wash to the isle of whight . South and east of this line has historically a continental climate , which skews englands overall data , as western scotland skews scotland overall data.
i said that ealrier on when i talked of micro cliamtes , rather than looking at uk , or scotland versus england |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 4, 2023 16:14:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2023 17:33:37 GMT
Yes, of course. It's called natural variation. An average year is actually a rare event, they are mostly drier than average, or wetter than average and both of these will be attributed to climate change by you cultists. |
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