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Post by thomas on Aug 2, 2023 6:26:52 GMT
NET ZERO ROLL-BACK: The EU has watered down rules for corporate environmental, social and governance (ESG) disclosures as companies complain about the mounting costs of environmental red tape.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 2, 2023 6:30:10 GMT
Shame you feel the need to go insulting again, but never mind. So having just said our climate isn't changing, you say climate change does exist. So how is it expressing itself? see this is where we often part company zany , in your puerile never ending spin of events and what people say. You arent very good at it. It also makes you look dishonest.
I didnt say the climate isnt changing. Im saying the climate changes naturally all the time. Im open to further persuasion man has a part in that change . Where have i insulted you personally though in my previous post , which was a generalisation not aimed specifically at you or anyone on this forum?
You said: I agree with this. Flash flooding as we know is caused by a normal variation in the climate , where some years we go wetter , some drier.
So if you agree climate change is happening but its not the cause of increased flash flooding, then how is it manifesting itself. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 2, 2023 6:31:30 GMT
The beginning of the end of Britain’s net zero consensus
It took hold in a world of low inflation and national confidence that is long gone
The towns and suburbs in the vicinity of Heathrow airport receive cruel treatment. Then, last month, one blasted itself on to the map and, I argue, into history. In Uxbridge, the Labour party lost a winnable by-election as locals mutinied against a green levy. Since then, Rishi Sunak, the Conservative prime minister, has said nice things about fossil fuels and confirmed plans for new drilling licences in the North Sea. Britain will look back on this seemingly banal election in this ostensibly quiet summer as the beginning of the end of its net zero consensus.
It was always paper-thin. In 2019, when Britain committed to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by the middle of the century, inflation was 2 per cent. A decade had passed since the previous recession. Had politicians been frank about the cost of the green transition, voters might have felt prosperous enough to pay it. Now? Not a chance.
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Post by thomas on Aug 2, 2023 6:38:01 GMT
see this is where we often part company zany , in your puerile never ending spin of events and what people say. You arent very good at it. It also makes you look dishonest.
I didnt say the climate isnt changing. Im saying the climate changes naturally all the time. Im open to further persuasion man has a part in that change . Where have i insulted you personally though in my previous post , which was a generalisation not aimed specifically at you or anyone on this forum?
You said: I agree with this. Flash flooding as we know is caused by a normal variation in the climate , where some years we go wetter , some drier.
So if you agree climate change is happening but its not the cause of increased flash flooding, then how is it manifesting itself. see what i mean about banal arguments?
It was you that incorrectly inferred that if the change in weather is normal , then climate change does not exist. You are arguing semantics zany.
Climate change is normal. My view on the causes of flash flooding were explained in a previous post.
I repeat my stance to you once again. I dont know enough , and neither do you or anyone else , about how mans behaviour is impacting weather patterns. The point is what difference can we make if man is to blame , and the consensus is very little , and how far are the public wiling to go in terms of taxation and loweing of living standards to make such a little impact?
Not very far according to polls.
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Post by thomas on Aug 2, 2023 6:40:21 GMT
From the janan ganesh article earlier......and one of my points to zany....
Last month, a YouGov poll found that around 70 per cent of adults support net zero. If this entailed “some additional costs for ordinary people”, however, that share falls to just over a quarter.
Political reality check for ministers and MPs: Only a quarter of Britons are in favour of Net Zero policies if they result in additional costs for ordinary people.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2023 7:06:04 GMT
If you are right Thomas and the weather is normal then climate change does not exist. The increased Co2 has had no effect on our weather as can be seen by your comments on it above. Therefore there will be no future cost of dealing with it. Thank you for your opinion on how we pay for those changes. climate change does exist. The question is wether its in part or wholly man made , or natural. As campbell says in his article , the next big and more pertinent question is what can scotland/england or the uk do about it realistically , for what purpose , and cost , and then balance out the equation to see if its worth it .
No one gives a fuck about what may or may not happen in 100 years regarding climate change. People are worried about jobs and livelyhoods now along with their living standard.
As ever though , especially on the liberal left , idealism overtakes realism . No one , no one on this earth is going to vote to make themselves poorer and worse off to appease a few climate nutjobs.
I couldn't agree more, especially when people are being bullied, disrupted and having their business' vandalised. Tyranny shouldn't be given into despite its encouragement both on here and elsewhere. I also have to agree with you regarding idealism, because I am seeing a lot oppressive techniques and abusive ventures by the enforcers, where the so-called baddies (the deniers) all seem calm, interested and willing to engage in a scientific journey, whilst obviously remaining completely aware of the political and social tyranny coming their way.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 2, 2023 7:40:55 GMT
see this is where we often part company zany , in your puerile never ending spin of events and what people say. You arent very good at it. It also makes you look dishonest.
I didnt say the climate isnt changing. Im saying the climate changes naturally all the time. Im open to further persuasion man has a part in that change . Where have i insulted you personally though in my previous post , which was a generalisation not aimed specifically at you or anyone on this forum?
You said: I agree with this. Flash flooding as we know is caused by a normal variation in the climate , where some years we go wetter , some drier.
So if you agree climate change is happening but its not the cause of increased flash flooding, then how is it manifesting itself. Any movement on providing evidence that flash flooding is becoming more common and that we are moving to a Med type climate? |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 2, 2023 17:01:22 GMT
You said: I agree with this. Flash flooding as we know is caused by a normal variation in the climate , where some years we go wetter , some drier.
So if you agree climate change is happening but its not the cause of increased flash flooding, then how is it manifesting itself. see what i mean about banal arguments?
It was you that incorrectly inferred that if the change in weather is normal , then climate change does not exist. You are arguing semantics zany.
Climate change is normal. My view on the causes of flash flooding were explained in a previous post.
I repeat my stance to you once again. I dont know enough , and neither do you or anyone else , about how mans behaviour is impacting weather patterns. The point is what difference can we make if man is to blame , and the consensus is very little , and how far are the public wiling to go in terms of taxation and loweing of living standards to make such a little impact?
Not very far according to polls.
I give up. Do you ever answer a straight question. I ask how should we pay for the consequences of climate change. Not who is to blame for climate change or whether is happening because on man or naturally. I thought it was a very good question seeing as you think people cannot afford Net Zero. But I believe there are costs of not reducing Co2 emissions, such as the massive flash flooding we are seeing across the globe. If you don't think climate change is happening then say so. If you don't know either way then don't bother to answer. You might not know enough, but don't speak for me mate. I know plenty enough to have made up my mind on the subject. |
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Post by zanygame on Aug 2, 2023 17:08:16 GMT
This is what the Met office say about rainfall
The latest State of the UK Climate report indicates the UK has become wetter over the last few decades, although with significant annual variation. 2011-2020 was 9% wetter than 1961-1990.
The change in rainfall depends on location – for example, Scotland has experienced the greatest increase in rainfall, while most southern and eastern areas of England have experienced the least change. From the start of the observational record in 1862, six of the ten wettest years across the UK have occurred since 1998.
The number of days where rainfall totals exceed 95% and 99% of the 1961-1990 average have increased in the last decade, as have rainfall events exceeding 50 mm. Both these trends point to an increase in frequency and intensity of rainfall across the UK. However, the variation in rainfall from year to year is still large, highlighting the importance of considering long-period natural variations.
Because current trends in extreme rainfall are within past natural variation, it can be difficult to isolate effects on our longer-term rainfall due to human influence by looking only at the observational record. A study using high-resolution climate models predicts that the influence of human-caused climate change will likely not be seen clearly in short-duration (hourly and shorter timescale) extreme rainfall trends in the UK until at least the 2040s for winter and 2080s for summer.
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Post by sandypine on Aug 2, 2023 17:48:31 GMT
This is what the Met office say about rainfall The latest State of the UK Climate report indicates the UK has become wetter over the last few decades, although with significant annual variation. 2011-2020 was 9% wetter than 1961-1990. The change in rainfall depends on location – for example, Scotland has experienced the greatest increase in rainfall, while most southern and eastern areas of England have experienced the least change. From the start of the observational record in 1862, six of the ten wettest years across the UK have occurred since 1998. The number of days where rainfall totals exceed 95% and 99% of the 1961-1990 average have increased in the last decade, as have rainfall events exceeding 50 mm. Both these trends point to an increase in frequency and intensity of rainfall across the UK. However, the variation in rainfall from year to year is still large, highlighting the importance of considering long-period natural variations. Because current trends in extreme rainfall are within past natural variation, it can be difficult to isolate effects on our longer-term rainfall due to human influence by looking only at the observational record. A study using high-resolution climate models predicts that the influence of human-caused climate change will likely not be seen clearly in short-duration (hourly and shorter timescale) extreme rainfall trends in the UK until at least the 2040s for winter and 2080s for summer. The UK has become wetter but that is down to a wetter Scotland; England and Wales have not become wetter and since we are dealing with flash floods primarily in England that is where the evidence of wetter should reside. Since the rainfall, even if it is more common, is still within natural variation why would flash floods become more common which they are not more common according to the flash flood chronology. If anything we are seeing fewer flash floods than the thirties so there may be another reason why you suspect flash floods are more common. The England and Wales climate is not changing and isolating different effects is not possible at the current time so I am not sure why you believe our climate is changing I note they isolate Scotland as the main driver of the wetter trend but then refer to UK figures again just to confuse the issue, |
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Post by sandypine on Aug 2, 2023 17:59:02 GMT
see what i mean about banal arguments?
It was you that incorrectly inferred that if the change in weather is normal , then climate change does not exist. You are arguing semantics zany.
Climate change is normal. My view on the causes of flash flooding were explained in a previous post.
I repeat my stance to you once again. I dont know enough , and neither do you or anyone else , about how mans behaviour is impacting weather patterns. The point is what difference can we make if man is to blame , and the consensus is very little , and how far are the public wiling to go in terms of taxation and loweing of living standards to make such a little impact?
Not very far according to polls.
I give up. Do you ever answer a straight question. I ask how should we pay for the consequences of climate change. Not who is to blame for climate change or whether is happening because on man or naturally. I thought it was a very good question seeing as you think people cannot afford Net Zero. But I believe there are costs of not reducing Co2 emissions, such as the massive flash flooding we are seeing across the globe. If you don't think climate change is happening then say so. If you don't know either way then don't bother to answer. You might not know enough, but don't speak for me mate. I know plenty enough to have made up my mind on the subject. But we are not seeing an increase in flash flooding across the globe that is not specifically down to poor human activity in the areas subject to such flooding. The Pakistan floods in 2022 were held up as an indication of how flash floods are occurring with greater frequency and an indication of AGW. Yet the rainfall was within the expected levels just in a slightly different place which had seen such rainfall but not for a few years. Dodgy maintenance and operation of the flood control systems and poor people moving into high flood risk areas was the essence of the problem. Pakistan will of course blame AGW as it means escaping culpability and possibly seeing incoming funds. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 2, 2023 18:31:31 GMT
see what i mean about banal arguments?
It was you that incorrectly inferred that if the change in weather is normal , then climate change does not exist. You are arguing semantics zany.
Climate change is normal. My view on the causes of flash flooding were explained in a previous post.
I repeat my stance to you once again. I dont know enough , and neither do you or anyone else , about how mans behaviour is impacting weather patterns. The point is what difference can we make if man is to blame , and the consensus is very little , and how far are the public wiling to go in terms of taxation and loweing of living standards to make such a little impact?
Not very far according to polls.
I give up. Do you ever answer a straight question. I ask how should we pay for the consequences of climate change. Not who is to blame for climate change or whether is happening because on man or naturally. I thought it was a very good question seeing as you think people cannot afford Net Zero. But I believe there are costs of not reducing Co2 emissions, such as the massive flash flooding we are seeing across the globe. If you don't think climate change is happening then say so. If you don't know either way then don't bother to answer. You might not know enough, but don't speak for me mate. I know plenty enough to have made up my mind on the subject. ive answered you questions repeatedly and endlessly.
We shouldnt pay for the consequences of climate change. How many more times? You cant tax your way to net zero , surely even you see that?
Flash floodings are not a cost of lack of net zero. we have went over this again numerous times. Its like you make a statement , however untrue , you recieve numerous answers wether you agre or not , you ignore the answers , and then go back and re ask the same question or make the original statement.
Is my english not understandable or something? Climate change is happening , and always has happened right back through history. The question is ...is it man made in part or totally or not? I cant answer that question .
Do you understand what i have just written? If you do , the next questions become what can we( scotland and england ) do about it (very little) and can we tax our way and diminish our lifestyles in the process of trying to achieve so little? i have already said no?
What part of my answers arent you understanding?
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Post by thomas on Aug 2, 2023 18:37:25 GMT
I give up. Do you ever answer a straight question. I ask how should we pay for the consequences of climate change. Not who is to blame for climate change or whether is happening because on man or naturally. I thought it was a very good question seeing as you think people cannot afford Net Zero. But I believe there are costs of not reducing Co2 emissions, such as the massive flash flooding we are seeing across the globe. If you don't think climate change is happening then say so. If you don't know either way then don't bother to answer. You might not know enough, but don't speak for me mate. I know plenty enough to have made up my mind on the subject. But we are not seeing an increase in flash flooding across the globe that is not specifically down to poor human activity in the areas subject to such flooding. The Pakistan floods in 2022 were held up as an indication of how flash floods are occurring with greater frequency and an indication of AGW. Yet the rainfall was within the expected levels just in a slightly different place which had seen such rainfall but not for a few years. Dodgy maintenance and operation of the flood control systems and poor people moving into high flood risk areas was the essence of the problem. Pakistan will of course blame AGW as it means escaping culpability and possibly seeing incoming funds. ive given other answers on some of the causes of flash flooding in scotland and england. Another point is sandy do you see the new built housing estates popping up everywhere? Sometimes three four story houses , crammed in together on postage stamp bits of land , with poor drainage , lack of parking , sometimes many dont even have front gardens , and very little green spaces.
Not to mention as i have already said , many of these housing estates are being built on old floodplains for a quick buck and as much profit as possible for the developer.
part of the problem with flash flooding. The list goes on.
Humans took tens thousands of years to get to a billion people, and we have increased by 7 billion or so in just over 100 years. Isnt human activity , expansion , building over and concreteing everywhere a large part of the problem? you cant possibly begind to tackle climate issues , while governments encourage the mass growth of populations around the globe for economic reasons.
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Post by zanygame on Aug 2, 2023 18:38:28 GMT
I give up. Do you ever answer a straight question. I ask how should we pay for the consequences of climate change. Not who is to blame for climate change or whether is happening because on man or naturally. I thought it was a very good question seeing as you think people cannot afford Net Zero. But I believe there are costs of not reducing Co2 emissions, such as the massive flash flooding we are seeing across the globe. If you don't think climate change is happening then say so. If you don't know either way then don't bother to answer. You might not know enough, but don't speak for me mate. I know plenty enough to have made up my mind on the subject. But we are not seeing an increase in flash flooding across the globe that is not specifically down to poor human activity in the areas subject to such flooding. The Pakistan floods in 2022 were held up as an indication of how flash floods are occurring with greater frequency and an indication of AGW. Yet the rainfall was within the expected levels just in a slightly different place which had seen such rainfall but not for a few years. Dodgy maintenance and operation of the flood control systems and poor people moving into high flood risk areas was the essence of the problem. Pakistan will of course blame AGW as it means escaping culpability and possibly seeing incoming funds. Flash flooding is not about more annual rainfall. |
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Post by thomas on Aug 2, 2023 18:44:35 GMT
This is what the Met office say about rainfall The latest State of the UK Climate report indicates the UK has become wetter over the last few decades, although with significant annual variation. 2011-2020 was 9% wetter than 1961-1990. The change in rainfall depends on location – for example, Scotland has experienced the greatest increase in rainfall, while most southern and eastern areas of England have experienced the least change. From the start of the observational record in 1862, six of the ten wettest years across the UK have occurred since 1998. The number of days where rainfall totals exceed 95% and 99% of the 1961-1990 average have increased in the last decade, as have rainfall events exceeding 50 mm. Both these trends point to an increase in frequency and intensity of rainfall across the UK. However, the variation in rainfall from year to year is still large, highlighting the importance of considering long-period natural variations. Because current trends in extreme rainfall are within past natural variation, it can be difficult to isolate effects on our longer-term rainfall due to human influence by looking only at the observational record. A study using high-resolution climate models predicts that the influence of human-caused climate change will likely not be seen clearly in short-duration (hourly and shorter timescale) extreme rainfall trends in the UK until at least the 2040s for winter and 2080s for summer. The UK has become wetter but that is down to a wetter Scotland; England and Wales have not become wetter and since we are dealing with flash floods primarily in England that is where the evidence of wetter should reside. Since the rainfall, even if it is more common, is still within natural variation why would flash floods become more common which they are not more common according to the flash flood chronology. If anything we are seeing fewer flash floods than the thirties so there may be another reason why you suspect flash floods are more common. The England and Wales climate is not changing and isolating different effects is not possible at the current time so I am not sure why you believe our climate is changing I note they isolate Scotland as the main driver of the wetter trend but then refer to UK figures again just to confuse the issue, bit of a generalisation there sandy. I see what you are getting at , but scotand isnt one single climate , neither is england , but both nations have loads of smaller micro climates.
General rule of thumb is of course west is wetter and milder east drier and colder , and the far south east of england touches on the continental climate.
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